[motohagiography]

Beginning to think the reason security is so difficult is because ostensibly "good" companies do everything an attacker does and worse, but under the guise of EULAs.

Here's a thought experiement: If Facebook were malware, could you get rid of it?

[nr2x]

Any sufficiently advanced form of advertising is indistinguishable from malware.

[akomtu]

Advertising is phishing. Malware is what the ads try to sell.

[doggosphere]

Doesn't seem to fit the definition of malware:

Malware is any software intentionally designed to cause damage to a computer, server, client, or computer network. A wide variety of malware types exist, including computer viruses, worms, Trojan horses, ransomware, spyware, adware, rogue software, wiper and scareware.

[Nextgrid]

> spyware, adware

Most advertising behaves like spyware for targeting purposes. It would be fine if it was consensual, but it's basically never the case.

> scareware

This is more about the ad's content than the concept of advertising itself, but online advertising is essentially the wild west and advertising platforms happen to get away with serving misleading ads that use scare tactics to get the user to do something against their best interests (sometimes even downloading actual malware).

[jdthedisciple]

That's not your own quote, is it? Where have I heard it before?

[Maximus9000]

The original quote is: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". ~Arthur C. Clarke

[nr2x]

My own spin on the ACC classic, been using it for years.

[clankyclanker]

Or the corollary: any advertising distinguishable from malware is insufficient advanced.

[ysavir]

What makes it insufficient?

[RyanHamilton]

On my previous samsung phone I literally couldn't remove facebook. It claimed to be an OS level app and refused to uninstall.

[artificialLimbs]

You can remove it ‘for the user’ using ADB. This basically disables it unless you factory restore the phone. I believe you have to use ‘pm list packages’ and grep for anything with Facebook or Katana.

[suramya_tomar]

Its the same on the S21 Ultra, you can't uninstall the app but you can disable it.

[nickserv]

Many of my friends on FB know that their data is being harvested, and simply don't care.

As for me, I would use an alternative platform in a heartbeat, but all the privacy focused ones so far have not gained any traction.

[Nextgrid]

The problem isn't that data is being harvested when they use Facebook, it's also that data is being harvested behind their back with FB stalking everything they do online (since the majority of websites and apps include FB malware) and linking it back to their user profile.

Clearly most people aren't aware of that (nor are they happy with it) given that some people even have the impression that Facebook is literally listening to conversations.

[gligorot]

For me it's not that I don't care, but I reason the data stealing as their form of payment for providing a free useful service to me. I try to limit the data I give them, but I still see the data gathering as their win in our nonzero (win win) game.

[Nextgrid]

> but I reason the data stealing as their form of payment for providing a free useful service to me

In this case, they could very well be transparent about it, and comply with local laws/regulations (such as the GDPR).

When companies comply (or Apple forces them to - like with App Tracking Transparency), it's clear that the majority of people do not consider this a fair deal and opt-out.

[gligorot]

Yep that's fair.

[cj]

Yes, but only if everyone else was convinced it was malware, too.

"Facebook invades privacy" is still a minority opinion among their user base (whether we like it or not).

[motohagiography]

Not sure you'd need everyone, it would be a product.

Apple has been aiming to become that product, because I've said before that Apple is primarily a privacy company with a bunch of entertainment features. It also means that competing with Apple isn't about design, it's also mainly about providing privacy. Their whole recipe is the complementary packaging of the two orthogonal concepts of entertainment and privacy.

I should start the next Apple.

[frosted-flakes]

Apple is a hardware company that uses privacy as a selling feature. They don't sell privacy, they sell hardware.

[cvwright]

We should all work on starting the next Apples.

[nr2x]

Opt-out rates clearly say otherwise.

[est31]

Looking forward to 2060 when you can't participate in society any more unless you connect your brain to a cloud run by a facebook subsidiary, giving them access to all your thoughts, memories, etc. Everyone is connected to it. What's your problem?

[dylan604]

Yes, we've all seen that(those) episode(s) of Black Mirror.