[KaiserPro]

> Apps/OS have been found to leak/send some 'personal' data to Apple servers,

This isn't about leaks, its about actual design. The itracker system scans your local area for tags, and reports back their IDs and your location. This was rolled out without consent.

By default apple collects "significant locations", which is then accessible to the itracker system ostensibly to warn you about tracking devices.

We accept this because apple are "trusted".

What if Apple are only trusted because they understand how to PR their way out of a bad narrative?

By default all your photos are sent to icloud. They are indexed and processed to give you faces, locations and other (useful) metadata tools.

In one of the OS upgrades, OSX uploaded all my passwords saved in my laptop keychain to icloud, without consent or warning. Not only that it shared them with my phone. My phone didn't at the time have a strong password set.

Just imagine the sheer breathless indignity if facebook, tiktok, or similar tried just one of these actions. However apple(and google) has impunity to do all.

That's my point, if we do care about privacy, then we need to apply the same level of criticism to _all_ companies.

[helsinkiandrew]

> By default all your photos are sent to icloud

Go into settings and turn off iCloud for photos, keychain and any other app you don't want it to work with.

The difference of all of these things is that Apple is doing it to improve its apps for YOU, uploading photos from your phone to iCloud so you can see on other devices, or face recognition to group your photos, keychain copying is used across devices that you've enabled it for. FB is using the data to create targeted ads, Apple isn't. If you don't like Apples cloud processing of your photos or passwords turn it off.

The data may be in Apples iCloud but is 'private' - it's probably as secure as your home or the phone in your pocket and at least as private as the information the phone companies have about your phone location.

[KaiserPro]

> Go into settings and turn off iCloud for photos

if facebook did that, we'd all be up in arms, and if that was their answer to one's privacy concerns we wouldn't buy it (see tracking opt in).

I get what your saying, but the difference is trust. We trust apple to be private. We don't trust facebook. People are ambivalent to google.

> Apple is doing it to improve its apps for YOU

I mean yeah, you could argue that Facebook are doing the same thing. After all, if engagement decreases, so does advertising revenue. Much as my opinion is unpopular, I doubt facial recognition of photos has much advertising benefit, especially when the social graph is already mapped out for you.

All I'm asking is that we apply the _same_ level of scrutiny of features from apple as we do to facebook. Don't buy the narrative about Apple being friendly, they are a corporation that will deploy the lawyers at any opportunity.

[thih9]

> Apple is doing it to improve its apps for YOU

This seems subjective; other companies could claim the same. E.g.: FB says they're trying to show YOU more relevant ads.

> The data may be in Apples iCloud but is 'private'

This seems more objective to me and a better indicator of actual privacy. Still, we should keep in mind that Apple's goals may change in future and that they might change their approach.

[KaiserPro]

> The data may be in Apples iCloud but is 'private'

But how do we measure that?

Apple went into differential privacy a while ago, which really isn't about privacy, its about anonymisation. Which is not the same thing. Private means that no one else but you[1] can see your stuff

Anonymous means that people can see your stuff, but they don't know who you are. This is different.

[1] well mostly only you