[8note]

I'd say Iran isn't a bad actor.

They're not an American client state, bit they're no worse than America, China, or Saudi Arabia

You can argue that they're a threat to american interests and an embarrassment to the American intelligence agencies, but that's not exactly the same as being a bad actor.

[eloff]

That's a logical fallacy. Two wrongs don't make a right.

China and Saudi Arabia are pretty dirty, but I don't see the US in that camp lately.

[vimacs2]

Really? You don't think the US selling billions in arms to both Saudi Arabia and Israel makes them complicit in those ally's crimes against humanity?

What about the fact that the US has been sponsoring military and paramilitary organisations in central and Southern America for decades to fight against attempts at unionisation or socialisation efforts to help ensure their control over the rare earth metals and oil there? There are death squads that have mowed down entire villages after being informed of talk about unionisation as well as driving away indigenous tribes who happen to live in areas that are inconvenient to the interest of US multinational companies.

Are you also somehow forgetting the war in Afghanistan and Iraq that was perpetuated for decades after the given reason for invasion were dealt with for the transparent motivation to plunder the resources there? More than 200,000 civilians dead (and that's on the optimistic side of projections) as a direct result of actions from the US army.

All of these examples I gave are crimes that the US are currently engaging in and even with that restriction, this is far from a complete list. If I expanded it out to what they have been up to in the last 5 decades, then it would be a lot longer still.

If you don't see the US as dirty, then I don't know what standards you are operating under.

[eloff]

> Really? You don't think the US selling billions in arms to both Saudi Arabia and Israel makes them complicit in those ally's crimes against humanity?

Crimes against humanity? How am I supposed to take you seriously. I'm no fan of Saudi Arabia, but they're a necessary evil. But Israel? I don't know what standards you're operating under...

[vimacs2]

So you don't see Saudi Arabia's actions against the Yemenese or Israel's actions against the Palestinians as crimes against humanity? I guess then you have no standards at all then since the ones I'm operating under are shared by the UN and the international community outside of the US and it's sycophants.

[stjohnswarts]

This is so full of false equivalency I don't really know where to start. I'll just say supporting a theocratic dictatorship that sponsors terrorists all over the world (no doubt partially through bitcoin). Also China who is currently committing genocide on a large scale as well as trying to take over commerce by building artificial islands in the strait. You can't "build" an island and expect to take over shipping lanes.

[CryptoPunk]

>>I'll just say supporting a theocratic dictatorship that sponsors terrorists all over the world

Which country are you talking about? The Western foreign policy elite and Gulf Arab states funded a massive influx of Islamic militants into Syria to try change that country's regime:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/foreign-fighters-flow-t...

The largest insurgent faction, and the one receiving the bulk of this material support, was effectively led by al-Qaeda's Syrian franchise, the al Nusra Front.

Unfortunately, every state has the blood of innocent people on their hands.

[eloff]

> Unfortunately, every state has the blood of innocent people on their hands.

Yes, but that doesn't mean they are equal either. Some are worse than others.

[vimacs2]

Pretty sure the US and friends are easily the worst when it comes to sponsoring international terrorism, especially if you don't just arbitrarily decide that state mandated actions are exempt from consideration as terrorism. Iran and other "bad actors" are not even remotely on the same level.

[eloff]

> Pretty sure the US and friends are easily the worst when it comes to sponsoring international terrorism.

That's nonsense, but I welcome you to make a case for it with facts.

> especially if you don't just arbitrarily decide that state mandated actions are exempt from consideration as terrorism

If it quacks like a duck, yes. State mandated actions are not exempt. But don't go equating drone strikes on military targets - actual terrorists - as terrorism. That's military action, not terrorism.

> Iran and other "bad actors" are not even remotely on the same level.

Don't even get me started on Russia and North Korea. If you think the US is a worse actor internationally, your moral compass is very poorly calibrated.

[vimacs2]

"That's nonsense, but I welcome you to make a case for it with facts."

Ok then, how about the fact that the US has been funding Al-Qaeda affiliated organisations to promote act as opposition to both Iran and Saudi Arabia's ideological and political enemies.

What about what went down and continues to go down in Southern and Central America where entire villages are being murdered in cold blood to discourage workers from organising for their own best interests and against the interests of the US? There are dozens of military and paramilitary organisations in Columbia and Bolivia that use arms and training provided by the US and allies (Israel in particular) to brutally put down worker uprisings and efforts at unionisation. Some of this training from the IDF in particular involves intentional maiming of members to drive up fear through the population against the idea of going against the regional power. Violence for the sake of spreading terror among the populace is terrorism by definition and the IDF have been both inflicting this on the Palestinians and training other groups to do the same on their own people.

This training and arms that Israel provides to these far right groups are directly subsidised through the billions in dollars that the US transfers to Israel yearly. This is no charity. The US has direct economic and political interests in keeping Central and Southern America under a tight thumb for both the rare earth metals there and the oil. They use the IDF to perpetuate fascist regimes abroad instead of direct support because of how bad the PR got during the 80's and 90's.

What about the plundering and destabilisation of Afghanistan and Iraq and how it has radicalised the region and formed dozens of terrorist groups that are now conveniently targeting surrounding nations which have not the best relationships with US empire. The leaks exposed by Julian Assange conclusively show that the US intentionally struck civilian targets including medics so don't bs to me that the Drone strikes (which btw were also being used illegally across Pakistani borders and murdering civilians) was strictly above board.

I invite you to make the case for how Russia and especially North Korea are somehow worse than the US in terms of state sponsored terrorism or even more traditional crime such as drug trafficking (Colombia remains one of the largest cocaine producers in the world with almost half of all cocaine controlled by the paramilitaries there) but I think you fail hard.