[Amezarak]

Setting aside the question of whether beliefs are influenced by genetics, there's no dichotomy between 'innate' and 'choice.' My religion or political views may not be 'innate' (whatever that means), but they are also not a choice. Can they change over time? Yes!

But not because I woke up and made the free choice that today, I will believe something else. You cannot simply decide to truly believe something else in the same way I could choose between two appetizers on the menu. You cannot choose to legitimately hold a belief. (You could choose to pretend to hold a belief.) If you don't believe me, try choosing to believe Nazi ideology is right and true.

I would actually say sexual orientation is quite similar. Someone cannot simply choose their sexual orientation. A huge conflux of factors come into play, such that people develop a sexual orientation. It may change as we 'discover' new things about ourselves, but there's no choice involved in how we feel.

[nailer]

People chose to adopt or to leave nazism all the time as well (that said it’s not a particularly common belief).

Sure people changes their beliefs - something I thought was true turns out to be no longer true, I no longer believe in it. I think you’re trying to say that because our beliefs are based upon our judgment they’re somehow not fluid. But we chose to judge and consider ourselves.

As mentioned earlier, sex, race and sexuality are innate and deserve protection. Nobody is arguing otherwise (unless you are).

[Amezarak]

No, people do not “choose” to adopt or to drop Nazism. They might choose to join the party, or to leave it, or to do something evil that Nazis do. But they don’t choose to believe Nazi ideology or to not believe it.

You cannot change a single one of your sincerely held beliefs by simply choosing to believe otherwise.

I have no idea what you mean by “innate.” Can you explain in what sense a belief is not innate but sexual orientation is? You seem to think fluidity had something to do with it, I think, but clearly people’s sexual orientation is fluid in the same sense: people often believe they’re straight and later believe they’re bi or gay, for example.

Sex and race are externally observable fuzzy characteristics, I don’t really think especially the latter is a useful concept because it’s too fuzzy. But I can at least imagine what you mean by “innate” in this sense, something that you’re born with (sort of) and which other people can determine immediately on sight.

[nailer]

I've stopped being annoyed with what seemed like blanket unsupported statements and written a more patient response:

> But they don’t choose to believe Nazi ideology or to not believe it.

If one gets new information, one decides whether that information is worth changing their beliefs. That is one important distinction between innate qualities and beliefs. And yes choice is involved.

> You cannot change a single one of your sincerely held beliefs by simply choosing to believe otherwise.

I receive new information, I reevaluate my beliefs. Simple.

> people often believe they’re straight and later believe they’re bi or gay, for example.

That's true and a good point - heterosexuality (which is closely tied with the ability to reproduce) is assumed to be the default. But see the next point...

> Sex and race are externally observable fuzzy characteristics

Agreed that 'race' is a funny concept. Americans mainly seem to use it to refer to skin color vs actual ancestry. That's the sense I'm using it here.

Also sexuality is externally observable. If someone is a man and having sex with (gender here) that's externally visible. You can literally watch it.