[thrwaeasddsaf]

> I don't believe that it's just a matter of "getting used to it", there are objective metrics of readability, developer error rates, and speed of training that some languages do poorly at.

If we had such objective metrics on APL or K, that would be an interesting discussion. But what I've seen here is just opinion and anecdote.

I also think that "looks like line noise" is a fair characterization of how J and K look on the surface, but that does not mean they are unreadable.

I'm hardly qualified to give any deep insight, but after reading the first half of Aaron Hsu's thesis and playing around with a Dyalog APL interpreter online for a few days, APL starts to look quite readable to me (much more so than J, thanks to the additional symbols) and I found it rather easy to learn (unlike mathematics, but for me the struggle there is not at all in syntax but in the concepts, methods, and meaning).