[Graffur]

Tiktok is full of girls dancing with very little or very tight clothes on for likes and attention. It's really seedy. There's subreddits dedicated to posting about these accounts.

On top of that it is designed to be addicting for the sake of addiction. It doesnt matter what the video is about once it will keep the user on the app. The algorithm will work out the perfect way for each person to be sucked in. We all know that these addicting videos won't be educational or even worthwhile. This type of stuff trends towards really useless content.

Of all the social media out there I would not let my kids use tiktok.

[angio]

TikTok is very good at recommending new content based on what you engage with (watch, like, comment, etc), if your feed is full of girls dancing, it's because you spend time actually watching it instead of just moving to the next video. My feed is full of people (for some reason mostly eastern european or from central asia) working at their construction jobs.

[freshhawk]

My Tiktok has a lot of videos of people complaining about exactly this and being responded to by pointing out they are telling on themselves in a hilarious way.

Gotta hand it to the algorithm, it is always funny to me.

[Graffur]

> they are telling on themselves in a hilarious way.

It's no secret how the algorithm tailors itself to what you watch. The hilarious thing is people thinking they're getting a 'win' when someone complains about any content. The app presents things to you and tries to grab your interest in any way. A lot of teenagers will, naturally, linger on that content for longer and then it becomes a cycle. That doesn't mean that is what they are aiming to get out of the app.

[freshhawk]

This isn't teenagers, it's adult men. It is situations where if they showed full understanding and said "I don't want it to show scantily clad teenagers to me as I have a lot of loud opinions about sex and sin but I can't stop looking at them so it keeps sending them" it would be just as funny.

It's not the complaint, it's the moralizing combined with the complaint about self selected content.

If they weren't moralizing then yeah, that's just a report of a bad experience with the algorithm. Those don't go viral.

[matsemann]

It doesn't necessarily mean it's directly based on one's own engagement. I don't use tiktok, but on Instagram i mostly follow sports stuff related to what I enjoy (skiing, cycling, running). What content will instagram show me? The most viral content in those categories. What's the most viral content in those categories? A girl skiing in her bikini, a female cyclist with unzipped top, a runner in mini shorts stretching.

But maybe tiktok is better in this regard, heard much praise about their algorithm.

[dash2]

I don't think this invalidates GP's point. Sure, if you don't want the seedy content, you won't see it, but it's still there and that's still a large part of how they make money.

[defaultname]

If a site has user contributed content there will usually be the "seedy" content. Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, Reddit...if it gets big enough, a certain segment will monetize it. Usually as an advertising vehicle for their more overt content on adult sites. It's actually an interesting complaint because TikTok takes a lot of heat for taking down a lot of benign content.

"that's still a large part of how they make money"

You base this claim upon what? Gut feeling?

The viral videos that everyone knows from TikTok contain approximately zero instances of "seedy" content. They are people doing everyday things. AFV style funny videos. Some guy drinking cranberry juice and riding a skateboard. Etc.

[lotsofpulp]

I don’t have TikTok, but when I am sent a link to it, and watch the linked video in Safari with Wipr content blocker, after the linked video is finished, it immediately auto plays a video of a very young blonde girl/woman who claims she recently found pictures of her pre breast reduction pre meeting her husband and is going to show them to her husband or something. This happens after any linked video I am sent, all non sexual.

Only reason I remember is because I thought that was a pretty transparent attempt at the type of audience they were aiming to attract.

[defaultname]

TikTok doesn't autoplay anything -- it repeats the video you watched. Do you mean you scrolled down?

Further, obviously the seed video that you used is going to have an enormous influence on subsequent videos (as presumably would the sender -- shared links can contain details about the sender, and if they had a logical algorithm that can play a part as well). And of course surely we all know that sites don't just track by being logged in. Even if you clear all cookies.

I just opened the TikTok homepage through a proxy in a clean instance of Firefox. First video was a woman who paints patterns on her face. Second was someone show a technique to clean stainless steel sinks. Third was a guy in Turkey showing his rugs. Then a dog bringing a leash back to its owner, someone using one of those pop-it distraction things, a guy with his cat in a box in front of a roller coaster video pretending the cat is on the roller coaster.

Eh. I don't see how your anecdote is such strong evidence of the "type of audience they were aiming to attract" (especially when the site seems to overwhelmingly cater to adult women...)

[lotsofpulp]

>TikTok doesn't autoplay anything -- it repeats the video you watched. Do you mean you scrolled down?

I click a link in WhatsApp, it opens up Safari in iOS on my phone, it plays the video, then at the end it starts playing another video.

I'm using a content blocker, so I presume TikTok does not know anything about my personal characteristics, so I assumed the videos that autoplay are the ones they autoplay by default.

PS I will forever harbor resentment to people around the world for putting up with video players that lack the ability to skip around the video or even see the length of the video.

[gabaix]

I have the opposite impression. I only like niche content about tools and life hacks, but every time seedy content is pushed back into my feed.

It has gotten worse in the past year.

I am actually surprised people see positives about Tik Tok. IMO it has a much worse societal impact than competition.

[Graffur]

It will always happen because as the old saying goes: "sex sells". For some reason, there is a large population on HN that will argue against the fact that tik tok has this content.

[Graffur]

> everyone knows

That everyone using tik tok knows. That doesn't invalidate any of the criticism. It just tells you like the content that appeals to everybody.

[Graffur]

I _knew_ this would be the reply. For your info, I don't have a TikTok account so try another argument.

[efdee]

So exactly how do you know what TikTok is full of, then?

[Graffur]

I have had multiple accounts. I have researched how others use the platform. I have observed the content migrating from one platform to another.

Are you arguing that tik tok is not full of girls in little clothing? Your argument is easily defeated.

[user-the-name]

Why does this bother you so much.

[user-the-name]

TikTok will still learn your preferences and adjust what content it shows you even if you don't register.

[Graffur]

That is not relevant. I am not complaining about content shown to me personally.

[defaultname]

To the "girls dancing" claim, I get approximately zero dancing girl videos. If you demonstrated to the app that such is the content you want, that's what you'll get. I get tonnes of birds, comedy, pets, weird animals, etc.

"On top of that it is designed to be addicting for the sake of addiction."

TikTok doesn't create content. People do. It happens to have content creation tools [the real genius of TikTok that many overlook] that allow a lot of funny, creative people to generate content that they previously couldn't.

Is that "designed to be addictive"? I guess, in the meaningless "it's designed to offer a rewarding experience" way.

EDIT: Some of the complaints in this discussion remind me of this classic Onion story - https://bit.ly/2Qm2w87

[Graffur]

> To the "girls dancing" claim, I get approximately zero dancing girl videos. If you demonstrated to the app that such is the content you want, that's what you'll get. I get tonnes of birds, comedy, pets, weird animals, etc.

I am not complaining that I get the wrong recommendations. In fact, I don't have the app. My point is the app is full is seedy content.

It's literally designed to be addictive. If you don't understand that this conversation is over.

[defaultname]

You don't use it, yet you are also an authority on what it is "full of". So much so that you're an observer of subreddits dedicated to lascivious TikTok content.

I use Reddit and am blissfully unaware of such subs.

As to "designed to be addictive", you are literally using that as a lazy, pejorative surrogate for "designed to be rewarding/enjoyable".

Understand that almost every part of your life is "designed to be addictive" by that sloppy trope. HN is "designed to be addictive" by putting the most interesting stories on the front page. Netflix, Facebook, Starbucks, McDonalds, Movie Theaters, Parks, Conservation Areas -- Designed to Be Addictive. It is meaningless prattle, though it's usually leveraged to dismiss things Other People enjoy.

[Graffur]

I have researched it thoroughly and understand how it works. That goes for other major sites too including facebook, instagram, whatsapp, reddit.

I don't care that you use reddit and are unaware of what content is on it. I could not care less.

The tik tok algorithm is designed to be addictive. It sounds like you agree but are trying to obscure that fact by throwing examples of other popular products.

[defaultname]

Okay...

[mysterEFrank]

TikTok pings you every few hours of swiping with a video that tells you to put the phone down and get some fresh air. It's the only social media app I've ever used that does that.

[defaultname]

I'm a cynic. I don't rack that up to TikTok's wonderful benevolence, but rather that their revenue curve is optimized for a particular usage pattern.

[Graffur]

Instagram does this too fwiw

[KineticLensman]

> Tiktok is full of girls dancing with very little or very tight clothes on for likes and attention.

I started using TikTok recently specifically to improve my smartphone camera technique. I just swiped the dancing girl videos away and now it has stopped showing them to me.

I was impressed by the competence of many of the smartphone photography instructional tutorials. Getting points across in 15 seconds demonstrates how 'flabby' many YouTube tutorials are.

[dragonwriter]

> Tiktok is full of girls dancing with very little or very tight clothes on for likes and attention.

Even if that was true, so what? While the venue changes, that’s what bitter elders always complain about about youth culture, to the point where it being a recognized cliche is ancient.

> On top of that it is designed to be addicting for the sake of addiction.

All of social media (and most of the web, and much offline entertainment) is optimized around engagement, to the same extent. There’s nothing special about TikTok here.

[Graffur]

So your argument is that is no worse than other bad things? I won;t even respond to your first question. We're too far apart to make a worthwhile conversation.

[ehsankia]

> Tiktok is full of girls dancing with very little or very tight clothes on for likes and attention

Said every single person who has never tried TikTok and forms their entire opinion based on things they read on online and a few subreddits dedicated to posting very specific kind of content.

[Graffur]

Nope I have researched tik tok thoroughly