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by throwaway00127 1866 days ago
Devil's advocate here:

>I am continually surprised that “let’s shut down difficult conversations” seems to be the default reaction here. As if that makes the conversations go away, or solves the problem.

Isn't that exactly what leftist activist have been calling for though? "Shut down toxic, 'hatespeech'/'difficultspeech' infested subreddits/forums, it makes the problems go away!" Then they link studies that show it does remove "hatespeech" from these places. You can't have your cake and eat it

>All it does is remind marginalized people that you don’t really care about them.

Conservatives are one of the largest marginalized people in SV/West coast. Is it OK for conservative activist employees to spam Slack all day about how gun control is anti-woman because it removes their right to self-defence? Women are a marginalized people, they need to have the same access to self-defence that they get in other conservative states. Is shutting down this speech anti-women? Do you not care about women because you won't allow this?

>It’s a very “shut up and work, peon” kind of move. I think it highlights exactly what the C-level thinks of their workers: they aren’t worthy of engaging with as full people; just cogs in the machine.

I'd say the sooner workers understand this, the better it is for everyone. This is reality, anything else is just fantasy land. You're replaceable, and if the company could save a dollar a quarter by laying you off, they would.

>I think in exchange for giving an employer the best hours of my day and the best years of my life, I deserve to be more than just a cog in the machine.

Negotiate that in your contract at your next job. Else, you're only going to get what you and your employer agreed to.

I played the Devil's advocate here but I think most here will understand what I'm getting at. Everyone has a different idea/reality on what the "status quo" is, what "workplace activism" is, etc. Due to this, it's extremely hard to work on teams when everyone is demonizing everyone else. The greater US culture has devolved to this, and it's starting to reflect in the workplace.

1 comments

> Isn't that exactly what leftist activist have been calling for though? "Shut down toxic, 'hatespeech'/'difficultspeech' infested subreddits/forums, it makes the problems go away!"

This is, I think, the mother of all false equivalencies. I don’t think it’s right or proper to equate discussions in a diversity channel with the monstrously hateful discourse that often occurs on nastier subreddits or 4chan and the like.

> Conservatives are one of the largest marginalized people in SV/West coast.

For a very stretched definition of “marginalized,” perhaps. Shopify is a Canadian company based (I believe) in Ottawa, so I don’t think this is really a useful thing to discuss. Shutting down these conversations is happening far outside the place where you allege conservatives to be marginalized.

> I'd say the sooner workers understand this, the better it is for everyone.

> You're replaceable, and if the company could save a dollar a quarter by laying you off, they would.

I think it’s dystopian to simply accept mistreatment. You deserve better; what incentive do you really have to settle? Unless you’re a CEO shitposting under a throwaway … you aren’t going to get what they have. Like you admit, they don’t care. Why roll over and accept a raw deal? The company is nothing without your labor.

> Negotiate that in your contract at your next job. Else, you're only going to get what you and your employer agreed to.

No employer would ever agree to that in a contract. In fact, most employers would never let you put anything in a contract, actually. That’s risky from their view. So this whole line of thinking is self-defeating: you and I both know it’s not a viable option. Why bother debating it? I mean, hell, Coinbase just said they won’t even negotiate salary anymore, the one thing you could actually negotiate for. It’s not an option, practically speaking; it’s just a way to shut down discussion.

>This is, I think, the mother of all false equivalencies.

I kind of set you up for this one.

> don’t think it’s right or proper to equate discussions in a diversity channel with the monstrously hateful discourse that often occurs on nastier subreddits or 4chan and the like.

The point I was trying to make is, one person's "hateful discourse" is another person's relatively benign politics. When "hatespeech" is anything right of Trotsky, math[1], acronyms[2], getting to work on time[3], objectiveness[3], etc., it's no longer just the nasty stuff that every agrees is disgusting and has no place at work. Now "hatespeech" and "white supremacy" can be practically anything.

>For a very stretched definition of “marginalized,” perhaps.

It's not a "stretched definition", it's literally the definition [4].

>Shopify is a Canadian company based (I believe) in Ottawa, so I don’t think this is really a useful thing to discuss. Shutting down these conversations is happening far outside the place where you allege conservatives to be marginalized.

I was under the assumption that the majority of the developers and such are out of the Bay Area, even though it's HQ is elsewhere. If most of the workers are in left-wing areas, then this holds.

>I think it’s dystopian to simply accept mistreatment.

Depends on if you believe it's mistreatment or not. If I view it as consensual and positive, who are you to say otherwise?

>You deserve better; what incentive do you really have to settle? Unless you’re a CEO shitposting under a throwaway … you aren’t going to get what they have. Like you admit, they don’t care. Why roll over and accept a raw deal?

I'm fine with not making as much as a founder, CEO, etc., I'm not a jealous classist. I live a life that 99.999% of humanity could only dream of living, make a solid income, great benefits, etc. I don't view it as a "raw deal".

>The company is nothing without your labor.

Your labor is nothing without the company. Again, we agreed to work where we work.

>No employer would ever agree to that in a contract. In fact, most employers would never let you put anything in a contract, actually. That’s risky from their view. So this whole line of thinking is self-defeating: you and I both know it’s not a viable option. Why bother debating it? I mean, hell, Coinbase just said they won’t even negotiate salary anymore, the one thing you could actually negotiate for. It’s not an option, practically speaking; it’s just a way to shut down discussion.

Then don't apply to that company, find another company that is more inline with your ideals/morals, or contract, or start your own company. Also, vote so that you get the benefits that you think you deserve by law. Just don't complain the way you have when not everyone sees eye-to-eye with you.

[1] https://www.newsweek.com/math-suffers-white-supremacy-accord... [2] https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/school-renaming-SFUSD-a... [3] https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/jul/17/smithsonian-a... [4] https://www.thefreedictionary.com/marginalize