[petra]

//People who turned their external salaries over to the kibbutz were often exploited, earning salaries that were a fraction of market rate, because they wouldn't see any of the extra.

Sure, that doesn't seem fair, but how do you price a free house, and an option for one for your children, in a country where most people live in apartments and only something like the top 10% live in houses?

And how do you price the job security a kibbutz gets you? In a country with a tough job market?

[solatic]

You misunderstand, I guess because I kept my post brief. This person was a software engineer working for a non-kibbutz company, so the non-kibbutz company was paying that person's salary to a kibbutz bank account rather than to the person. The salary was about $30,000/year for an end-of-career senior developer, who was easily worth triple that or more. From her perspective, she didn't see a point in trying to move jobs or ask for market-rate, because either way, whatever salary she earned went straight to the kibbutz. The kibbutz didn't complain about the exploitation salary because it was "enough" and the non-engineers running the kibbutz didn't know what people are supposed to be paid.

So everybody loses. The kibbutz loses because it gets way less hard cash than it would otherwise be able to get. She lost, leave the economics out of it for the sake of argument, because the reality of exploitation is that you suffer in your work relationships as a result.

A kibbutz doesn't give you job security. If you are supposed to be earning from outside the kibbutz, and stop working, then you face social ostracism and shame within the insular community. That's not security.

[petra]

That's interesting.

I'm not sure that software engineer lost. If she only cost her employer a third of a salary, that quite a big bargain chip. She could have used it to get more flexibility, better job security, maybe a more interesting role, etc.

But of course it still depends how people treated her and how she felt her status was. But that could go either way.

[solatic]

> If she only cost her employer a third of a salary, that quite a big bargain chip.

Maybe this would be the case if engineers were replaceable cogs in the machine. If every cog is the same, then the cheapest cogs make you the most money, right?

Except that engineering doesn't work like this. Engineers aren't directly replaceable, and replacement costs still need to be paid for anybody who would replace them. If you do not value the engineers that you have, then quite simply, you do not value them.

[petra]

I know of a software engineer that worked in a manufacturing plant.

The salary was significantly lower, but the the work was easier and the rate was slow. Heck he even replaced his manager once the manager retired.

Not everything is about money, as long as you don't need the money.

[cutemonster]

> She could have used it to get more flexibility, better job security, maybe a more interesting role, etc

She could have had a 3 x higher salary and done all those things (or so I think, based on GP's description).

When you understand your own worth (workplace wise), the others respect you more, and it's simpler to change things the way you want.