[imiric]

It's really frustrating how often whataboutism is used whenever China is criticized, particularly towards the US.

Yes, we know other countries have similar issues, but we can't excuse the blatant wrongdoings of the CCP by pointing the finger elsewhere.

It often feels like the work of bots or government shills anytime it happens, but good luck getting to the bottom of that.

[brabel]

Why is it frustrating when others point out that the most popular services, which are usually from the USA, also have the same kind of problem of being under the influence of the respective government, but nobody seems to be as worried about it? The criticism almost always comes up whenever a service provided by a Chinese company is mentioned in any context. China has shown no interest that I know of in spying on non-Chinese citizens, so I feel like it's probably less problematic to use a chinese service than an American one if your only worry is that someone is spying on you, specially considering how there's plenty of evidence of the USA spying on the whole bloody planet, including heads of state of allied countries, for f'sake...

>It often feels like the work of bots or government shills

Do you think I'm a bot because I disagree with you? Maybe you are the bot... how can we verify you're not? :D good luck getting to the bottom of that.

[Teever]

> China has shown no interest that I know of in spying on non-Chinese citizens

Assuming that this assertion is true what motivates China to be so authoritarian towards their citizens but not so to the rest of the world? Is it altruism or inability?

Does China only spy on their own citizens but not the rest of the world because they like the rest of the world more than their own citizens and they want the rest of the world to have rights and freedoms that they believe their own citizens don't deserve?

If it comes down to an inability to spy on the rest of the world what do you think will happen when China does develop the ability to spy on the rest of the world?

[shard]

> China has shown no interest that I know of in spying on non-Chinese citizens

I believe China has kept tabs on 2 groups of non-Chinese citizens: 1. foreign nationals within China borders, and 2. foreign nationals who are ethnically Chinese.

[imiric]

It's frustrating because it's not the topic of conversation, and it only serves to derail it as we're doing now.

If we're discussing the high cost of apples and someone brings up oranges, it doesn't change the fact that apples are expensive.

> Do you think I'm a bot because I disagree with you?

No, but a lazy comment doing s/China/USA/ certainly reads like it. And if you've seen some of the threads on Reddit or Twitter it becomes pretty clear some accounts search for any negative discussion about China and interject with whataboutism, which would be pretty easy to automate.

[krageon]

> it's not the topic of conversation

Yes it is, because the topic invariably includes "alternatives" or things that are "better". Those things are nearly always things the US has made. They are not better. Yes, it's bad. Everyone knows this. Adding value to that conversation is giving alternatives or offering some new insight into the nature of badness and how it's different flavours should be looked upon.

[imiric]

Introducing ideas associated to the topic that expand it and offer new perspectives is of course welcomed.

The issue with the China apologist comments is that their intent is to damage control by attacking the negative sentiments that would make the country look bad and steering the conversation towards the evils of other countries, i.e. whataboutism. This behavior is so prevalent online that you'd be hard pressed to find any discussion that criticizes China without it.

I'd also find it frustrating if in any thread that criticizes the US there would be comments about how China is worse. That might be the case, but it doesn't minimize US' problems and only distracts from discussing them. Yet such comments are much less frequent--I'm not sure if I've ever seen one.

[sm4rk0]

> Why is it frustrating when others point out

Because it's painful to be awaken from the "American dream".