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by wongarsu 1875 days ago
Yes, if you care about privacy both the large Chinese services and the large American services are bad.

If you use Facebook or Instagram assume that the NSA has all your data, and that someone might try to manipulate you. If you use TikTok assume that China has all your data, and someone might try to manipulate you. You either choose your poison, or you stay on services that aren't in the limelight
2 comments
gonehome 1875 days ago
One big difference is in the US the companies are not required to manipulate content to serve USG interests. TikTok may downrank or censor HongKong videos because the government forces them to - the same does not happen at American companies.

I think the 'assume they have all of your data' is paranoid (particularly for encrypted stuff like whatsapp), but people should probably more careful about this kind of thing than they are anyway. The US has laws and rules around access, you may not agree with them - but they are far and away better than the CCP's approach.

The CCP is running concentration camps for a minority population of their own citizens, invading and taking over neighboring countries (HK with an eye towards Taiwan), and censoring pooh bear from the internet because of a light hearted comparison to Xi. The police call foreign students in the US to threaten them over their internet activity: https://www.vice.com/en/article/jgxdv7/chinese-police-are-vi...

The comparisons are not valid.

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wongarsu 1875 days ago
> particularly for encrypted stuff like whatsapp

End-To-End encryption is useless if like in the case of WhatsApp you don't control the client, but a company beholden to US secret courts does. "“For the past decade, N.S.A. has led an aggressive, multipronged effort to break widely used Internet encryption technologies,” said a 2010 memo describing a briefing about N.S.A. accomplishments" [1]

> The US has laws and rules around access

I'm not a US citizen and reside outside the US, which from my limited legal understanding means that the US law doesn't give a crap about me

I agree that in recent decades China has a worse human rights record, which is a major factor when you "choose your poison".

1: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-...

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gonehome 1875 days ago
All reasonable points, though I think whatsapp is secure - I think for most people the best choice is Signal for general messaging and assuming everything else is largely public.

Even in Signal people can and do take screenshots, so really probably just best to be cautious of anything in writing that you wouldn't want published.

This is one reason I'm excited about Urbit - I think it'll be cool to get out of the dependence on centralized services.

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leephillips 1875 days ago
You're right about Chinese government behavior. But “the same does not happen at American companies.” --- no, but they censor the internet in obedience to Pakistani demands.
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gonehome 1875 days ago
You're right, and I think that's wrong: https://zalberico.com/essay/2020/06/13/zoom-in-china.html
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leephillips 1875 days ago
That was excellent. Especially the dialog, totally on point. The horrible thing is that it is barely an exaggeration. US companies are in bed with a government that is conducting an actual genocide, as you point out. And then there is the middle east....

But as far as Google and Pakistan goes, most people who have an inkling of this think that the censorship only affects results served within Pakistan. But, in fact, the censorship affects search results served within the US. Google has allowed the Pakistani government, as well as various pressure groups and other governments, to influence what US people see within the US.

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lurkerasdfh8 1875 days ago
Not sure why you think those are exclusive. All companies mentioned have offices and comply with law on both regions.
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