[charlesu]

Black is an overloaded term. It’s a race and an ethnicity. If you were to write about black people in Africa, it would be nonsensical to capitalize it because black doesn’t communicate any shared identity in that context. The right granularity is national, ethnic, or tribal.

But Black is a cultural identity in the context of the United States. Blacks, or African-Americans, are ethnically distinct and have shared history, culture, and language. In 1840, almost all blacks in America were slaves. In 1950, almost all blacks were descendants of slaves. At either time, almost all of them would have spoken English as their first language. At either time, most would have been born in the American South. Most importantly, at either time would have identified with each other on the basis of those shared traits.

Whites, on the other hand, are comprised of distinct ethnic groups and had their own communities throughout American history. Go to any major American city and you’ll find neighborhoods that are historically Italian, Irish, or German.

[wyclif]

I disagree fundamentally with your take because I approach this subject academically instead of in pop culture terms. Both blacks and whites have distinct ethnic groups that are more granular. Just as whites are ethnically English, Irish, German, Scandinavian, Italian, etc., blacks are ethnically Akan, Cuban, Caribbean, Abyssian, Fulani, Zulu, Oromo, and more.

[charlesu]

Let’s bring in an academic to this discussion. Someone already linked the AP guidelines, but I’ll quote an actual professor with a background in this kind of stuff.

Here’s quote from an article written by John McWhorter, a prominent Black conservative who happens to be a professor of English and linguistics at Stanford the subject[1]:

“But what about the black business districts that thrived across the country after slavery was abolished? What about Frederick Douglass, Ida B. Wells, W.E.B. Du Bois, Gwendolyn Brooks, Richard Wright and Thurgood Marshall, none born in Africa and all deeply American people? And while we're on Marshall, what about the civil rights revolution, a moral awakening that we gave to ourselves and the nation.”

“My roots trace back to working-class Black people - Americans, not foreigners - and I'm proud of it. I am John Hamilton McWhorter the Fifth. Four men with my name and appearance, doing their best in a segregated America, came before me. They and their dearest are the heritage that I can feel in my heart, and they knew the sidewalks of Philadelphia and Atlanta, not Sierra Leone.”

“So, we will have a name for ourselves - and it should be Black. "Colored" and "Negro" had their good points but carry a whiff of Plessy vs. Ferguson and Bull Connor about them, so we will let them lie. "Black" isn't perfect, but no term is.”

Are you better qualified to say whether Black should or shouldn’t be capitalized than a Black English and linguistics professor at Stanford? Is your take more academic than his? And if so on what basis? Because it doesn’t seem to be based context or history or what Black people call or have called themselves.

My claim and one his claims is simple: there is a culturally distinct group within America that is called African-American and Black and that the B should be capitalized. Whether The better is Black or African-American is up for debate but only within the African-American community. It’s our right to determine what the proper term is. In the meantime, the consensus is that you should capitalize the B in Black when referring to black Americans who descended from black slaves in America.

[1] https://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/why-im-black-not-af...

[marshmellman]

I believe Black (when capitalized) is meant to refer to American descendants of slavery.

[javagram]

Feels like it would be very weird to ask someone if they are a recent immigrant (there are millions of African Americans who immigrated to the USA post 1965 or are children of those immigrants) or an ADOS to decide whether you should label them “Black” or “black”.

I’ll say whatever someone prefers though. Capitalizing “w” in white is a bit creepy to me though and has echoes of promoting the idea that all “whites” are the same.

[charlesu]

Why would you need to label someone by their ethnicity in daily life? This stuff really only comes up in two situations:

1. Forms where the person in question just fills it in themselves (generally the option is Black/African anyway)

2. Discussions about groups of people in which case the labels are descriptive and fairly easy to navigate.

[javagram]

1. Absolutely

2. Usually the discussion or writing would not be limited to ADOS. I’ve very rarely seen writers attempt to divide the community like that. As I said though, I’m fine with capitalizing it if that community wants it.

You could make a lot of the same statements about “whites” becoming one community in america. That said I don’t think capitalizing the W looks good, it’s weird and seems like something a white supremacist would do.

[etchalon]

If you approached the subject academically, you’d have an informed take on it.

[wyclif]

My take is informed. Which one of those ethnicities do you believe I made up? Those are real people and real ethnic categories.

[etchalon]

Your take isn't informed, as the reasoning behind the change, as explained by the editorial teams I linked above, and which has been debated academically, is an explicit counter to your primary argument.

Your take is "I have an opinion!"

[charlesu]

So Blacks aren’t a “real people”? Is your actual argument that African-Americans don’t exist as a distinct ethnic group? If that’s your argument you should say so.

[wyclif]

You are misrepresenting my position. My comment was to the effect that they are real people and that you are trying to reduce and dismiss their ethnicities.

[charlesu]

I’m not reducing anyone’s ethnicity because Black one ethnicity and Igbo is another.