[thrownaway564]

The culture here is getting bad. We have an "inclusion council" that hands out these diktats. The word ban list (not blacklist!) is approaching 100 words including husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy. Worse part is we're a security company

edit: "here" is okta, not basecamp

[SquibblesRedux]

When anyone tries to prescribe language, it's time to look for the exit. For anyone who has not read the book Nineteen Eighty-Four (1984)[1], or seen the movie, I strongly recommend reading or watching. George Orwell understood the power of language when he wrote about Newspeak[2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nineteen_Eighty-Four

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newspeak

[FooBarBizBazz]

> husband

Yup. Pro tip: If you're at a SV-influenced company and you find yourself talking about your personal life, don't say "husband," "wife," "boyfriend," or "girlfriend;" say "partner." That signals that you're an Ally rather than an Enemy.

You'll notice other weird speech patterns too. Pay attention to them; they're meaningful.

[wyclif]

I often see that peculiar speech pattern here on HN! It's like they're afraid to say 'wife' out of fear of offending the woke mob. The same people who are OK with work being a constant struggle seminar.

[shagie]

I use "sibling" rather than "brother" or "sister" and "parent" rather than "mother" or "father" to reduce information leakage. "Partner" could find the same use.

This isn't any woke thing - its just a "don't reveal information that isn't necessary."

[t0mbstone]

Ah, yes. Let's just obfuscate every humanizing aspect of our lives to ensure we are seen as a replaceable cogs in the money making machine instead of real people with feelings.

[jyounker]

^^^ This. So much this. My boss isn't entitle to know the details of my life, nor is the company, nor are my co-workers.

You earn the details of my life by being my friend, not through a contractual relationship.

[thrownaway564]

Truth. from the "guidance" page:

"More inclusive: Spouses/partners <> Less inclusive: Wives, husbands, boyfriends, girlfriends"

[t0mbstone]

But isn't your restriction of my language and how I refer to the people I love pretty much the opposite of "inclusion"?

What if my wife would prefer if I referred to her as my "wife" instead of as a generic, faceless "partner"? By insisting that I refer to her as a genderless "partner", you are failing to respect her chosen pronoun.

[joshuamorton]

This is almost certainly for product or marketing materials, and not for you talking about your personal relationships. That is Okta should not talk about building a security tool for you and your wife to use, but instead for you and your partner to use.

Because I have no clue who your partner is (or really if you have one) so I shouldn't assume until I have that information. Note that the words in the example are all plural, presumably referring to multiple other peoples' partners.

[t0mbstone]

Oh, I see what you are saying. I can definitely get behind the use of gender neutral language in product and marketing materials. That part makes sense anyways.

[evrydayhustling]

Curious about the context here - is the guidance page suggesting how to refer to your own relationships, or when referring to an abstract group of relationships?

[whywhywhywhy]

What word do they suggest in place of 'hacker'?

[listless]

Do we have any examples of this D&I stuff working? All I hear about are campuses and companies literally imploding. I never hear any places that were bad, and then got better. Is there any data at all to suggest that these ideas work and result in a better world?

[novalis78]

Come to us. First of all it’s Florida and second of all you can say and think what you like. In fact unique points of view are deeply appreciated and widely supported - and engaging contrarian intellectual conversations most welcome.

[foobiekr]

The most crazy about this stuff in the stirring-stuff-up sense person that I know went to okta specifically because they sensed it would be a good place to engage in this behavior.

[JADev62096]

It's bad where I work too. I'd call myself anti-woke. I just keep to myself. The sad thing is that I feel completely demoralized by it all. Like no one is on my side and I can't express myself at all anymore. I can't understand the people who say quit, because for every Basecamp or Coinbase there are 10,000 other companies who haven't banned it where it's taking over.

[thr0waway99x99]

Got a good chuckle reading the Twitter Bio of Okta's founder & CEO:

"Co-founder + CEO of @okta, proud husband + father, addicted to exercise."

Similar verbiage on their company site as well haha

[gedy]

"Husband" is banned? That's mental - I'd consider that a hostile work environment.

[prepend]

Why hacker?

[simondotau]

If Paul Graham doesn't rename this site "Hackex News" tomorrow, the woke brigade must cancel it immediately!

[prepend]

It’s tomorrow and not renamed. Surely, his silence on this issue means that he endorses the patriarchal dominance of hackers.

[thrownaway564]

their explanation: it's "gendered and not inclusive"

[bryik]

"hacker" isn't gendered.

> 1. A person who enjoys exploring the details of programmable systems and how to stretch their capabilities, as opposed to most users, who prefer to learn only the minimum necessary.

http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker.html

[willcipriano]

My daughter will be a hacker if she wants to follow in her old mans footsteps. Please don't take that away from her.

[edoceo]

mines only 6, shes defeated some child locks and found a "cheat" in one of her kid games on the iPad and presses every button on every machine she sees. Hack the planet kiddo!!

[thrownaway564]

Good! we'll need her in a few years once these kids' anxiety drives them out of the wokeforce

[arp242]

And what's wrong with husband? Or housekeeping?

How am I supposed to talk about my husband doing the housekeeping?

[sithlord]

you say

"My Man Spouse is doing the domestic science"

[_-david-_]

Not sure about housekeeping but husband is gendered so I assume that is the "problem".

[prepend]

That seems like they don’t understand the word. I can’t think of many more communities more inclusive than hackers. It’s certainly not gendered either.

Are all gendered words banned?

[mc32]

Oh boy! No having cash cows or taking bullshit, or taking a gander, or goosing the numbers, etc., etc.

What the hell happened to us?!

[anon7725]

What’s wrong with husband?

[paulddraper]

> husband, housekeeping, normal, hacker and meritocracy

wtf

[ubercore]

Anyone work at Okta that can confirm this?

[SvenMarquardt]

https://basecamp.com/about/jobs