[wankeler]

Still in current usage and almost entirely disconnected from historical context.

And while we are being so critical of evil Brits I’m sure the phrase has never been uttered by native Dubliners giving their own view of the largely rural regions of their own country?

Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles?

[sc__]

Like many linguistic relics better left buried, the phrase is usually only disconnected from historical context for those who may not fully appreciate the complex circumstances surrounding its origin. Around those who do, to use it like in the specific example you gave would be a faux pas to say the least.

[extra88]

We can't all be either Funk or Wagnalls. This is the first I've ever seen an origin explained.

This [0] explanation describes a couple of definitions of "pale," a fence or a sort of political boundary with the Pale of Dublin as an example. It says "to be 'beyond the pale' was to be outside the area accepted as 'home' (outside the paling fence around one's home) and the first printed use was clearly using this sense.

I don't question whether anyone ever used "beyond the pale" in a negative way towards people in parts of Ireland but it clearly wasn't, and isn't, the exclusive meaning of the phrase.

Let's not discard something just because someone, somewhere used it in a bad way (he wrote with '88' in his username). To verb a noun, let's not swastika the phrase "beyond the pale."

[0] https://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/beyond-the-pale.html

[stavros]

> Edit: BTW are you actually suggesting the Irish of the time were a race apart from other indigenous people of the British Isles?

Where did you get that from?

[extra88]

randompwd described "beyond the pale" as a racist slur and an example of anti-Irish racism. Sounds like they're calling Irish people a race to me.

Or they're confused and think "racist" is synonymous with "bigot." It's not, it's bigotry against people of a certain race (or not of a certain race). I've seen a couple of instances of people using "racist" when race wasn't a factor; they meant "bigot" or "prejudiced" and I assumed they didn't have a broad vocabulary that included those more accurate words.

[DanBC]

> Or they're confused and think "racist" is synonymous with "bigot." It's not, it's bigotry against people of a certain race (or not of a certain race).

Those people are just using a current legal definition found in many countries that includes nationality as well as race to define racism.

UK: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/9

> and I assumed they didn't have a broad vocabulary that included those more accurate words

Maybe crack open a dictionary?

> 2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution:

> 2.

> a. : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock

> b. : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics

> The term race has also been applied to linguistic groups (linguistics) (the “Arab race” or the “Latin race”), to religious groups (religion) (the “Jewish race”), and even to political, national, or ethnic groups (ethnic group) with few or no physical traits that distinguish them from their neighbours (the “Irish race,” the “French race,” the “Spanish race,” the “Slavic race,” the “Chinese race”, etc.).

[extra88]

Here, we speak American (/s).

The earlier examples of using "racist" along these lines was long before 2010.

> 2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution

"Common history" is very broad. Do "proper cunts" share a common history? (apparently HN Replies is speedier than one's edits).

Regardless of how broadly "race" is defined by a given law or its use documented in a dictionary, I still think "racist" in reference to a person or act is over-utilized and "bigot" in its various forms not used enough.

[wankeler]

Well if the Brits are making racist comments about the Irish it rather suggests they are a different race or prone to putting themselves down. Ah, hold on a moment …