[cheese_goddess]

I'm sure you've heard this one a thousand times before and you have the answer ready. I don't know the answer you have ready so I'm curious to hear it:

"Killing animals is not murder. Murder is when a human kills another human".

Go ahead then. Say your thing.

By the way, I think that hotdogs are gross and unhealthy and I wouldn't eat one, meat or no meat. Like I said in my original comment (from which it's true I digressed more than a bit) there are a ton of other things you can eat and enjoy that are vegetarian or vegan and that are not fake meat or fake cheese. I don't understand why some vegans and vegetarians prefer to substitute the meat and dairy they say they don't want to eat anymore with fake versions, rather than learn to cook and enjoy food without meat and animal products. That to me is just lazy and self-deceiving.

[hjek]

To "murder" is often used in the meaning of to "kill intentionally and with premeditation". Was that not clear from the context?

> there are a ton of other things you can eat and enjoy that are vegetarian or vegan and that are not fake meat or fake cheese.

We agree completely here.

> That to me is just lazy

Again, I agree. However, I think it's good that we're creating opportunities for lazy people to eat vegan too (or people who don't have time to cook, or parents with picky children, or traditionalist family that insist that you can't have Christmas without roast pig, etc.).

[cheese_goddess]

>> To "murder" is often used in the meaning of to "kill intentionally and with premeditation". Was that not clear from the context?

The context was that killing a non-human animal is murder. Murder is when a human kills another human. When a human kills a non-human animal it's just a "killing".