[georgieporgie]

What are the best technologies to focus on in order to be mobile/remote?

I've notice that nobody is interested in remote C++ development, and the few people I meet who are doing something like this are in some branch of web development.

[smikhanov]

Sure. The bottom line is that nobody is interested in any serious stuff being done remotely. So those type of stories you usually hear from someone like these folks who did "online communications" and "freelance web design/programming", which is not serious by definition. Projects involving something like C++ have significantly higher chances of having a bigger scope, impact and different set of responsibilities from all participants.

This lifestyle might be appealing for some very short period of life, under very specific circumstances. You have to be young to not worry about health insurance. You have to have the job that is simple enough to be outsourced and complicated enough to be at least reasonably paid. You have to not worry about "career" or "experience" (which are just different words for "future"). You have to be from the first-class country to take advantage of the visa requirements with your passport. It is also interesting to note that things they can afford in certain countries, like going to the beach every day, would definitely be prohibited for them in their home country given their occupation (note their remark on costs in Argentina, which, I assume, are lower than in Belgium).

I can elaborate much further as few of my friends live this sort of lifestyle in South-East Asia. From what I know about it, it's definitely (a) not for me, (b) doesn't make me think that the future knowledge workers will work that way. I work on my own projects in one of the most expensive cities on the planet and it's hard for me to see how can I relocate anywhere without losing the advantages I'm getting from the infrastructure and population here.

UPDATE: Though seeing the world is awesome, I'd personally prefer saving 10-20K and taking a year off work for that.

[Joeri]

It helps that they are from Belgium. Healthcare isn't an issue, because I'm sure they arranged for repatriation insurance ahead of time for anything serious, and once back in belgium getting medical treatment is cheap. Career and experience weren't affected, because a gap year doesn't matter much to employers. Passports similarly aren't an issue. I've been to south-africa, thailand and the US, and I never needed a visum.

I used to be big on the idea of leaving belgium and going to "nice" places to live there. Over here the weather always seemed to be cold and rainy, the people inhospitable and narrow-minded, and the cities dull and lifeless. Travelling sort of brought me back home. The weather is cold and rainy at times, but it's also totally unpredictable, and appreciating that has made me realize it's not as rainy as I thought it was. The people may not be as warm and welcoming as they are in thailand, but they also respect your privacy and they are more honest with their emotions. As far as the cities go, I've really come to love Antwerp, where I live now. When I go on vacation to thailand now (went once a year for the past few years), it's amazing, and I get to do things that are impossible in belgium (I got married with nothing but green fields between us and mountains on all sides), but after a few weeks I always get homesick.

In a way, I think this sort of on-the-move lifestyle is meant for people that haven't found a home yet. Once you do find a genuine home, not just a place where your bed is, and come to appreciate it, you simply don't need to do this. I still like to travel, but only to satisfy curiosity, not because I think other places are nicer.

[nomadznu]

Hi Joeri. From Belgium too I presume. It indeed helped we're from Belgium, regarding the insurances. On the other hand: for US citizens this way of living is even cheaper if they are paying health insurance in their home country. Because that's so darn expensive over there.

That's why so many people go to Thailand: health care is inexpensive and very very good when compared to the costs related to it in their own country. We had to go once: the total costs medicines included: 37 euro. I never took the bill to my health insurance to be reimbursed...

So the insurance thing is nice, but you have to compare it to the real costs.

As far as what you're saying on Belgium: we totally agree: We came back to Belgium in Feb, when it was rainy and people where still complaining... And suddenly it was Spring and well, heaven.

I myself have been living for 2.5 years abroad before this one year trip. Coming back to Belgium, Ghent, is always superb. We love it. And we found our home quite a while ago. It's Ghent. One of the most beautiful cities in the world.

But we love travelling too. And that's why we decided to do this trip: we didn't want to wait until we're retired to do what we love to do.

In our ideal lifestyle we'd do this each year for 3 to 4 months. Just like grandparents who skip winter in Spain, but our destinations would be a tiny bit different :)

[lancewiggs]

It's so sad to see the comments about healthcare costs. I've travelled the world on motorcycle - and been happily uninsured for all of it except for the USA. Costs of treatment overseas are a fraction of the US - and of any health insurance.

[tomsaffell]

Your use of the word serious to describe work sounds like a value judgement. Your description sounds more like a distinction between inter-connected vs. carved-out / standalone.

That said, If I were to take off 12 months, I too would prefer to save 10/20K and take off a whole year. I traveled for 6 months after college on ~$5000. Pro tip: if you're paying taxes before and after your trip, then spread it over two tax years (i.e. June - July in US). I calculated that doing this in the UK (where there is a big jump in tax rates) could net you several thousand pounds.

[ironchef]

"The bottom line is that nobody is interested in any serious stuff being done remotely" I disagree. I've done "serious" engineering (performance engineering, etc.) remotely. The key is establishing a level of trust with the client PRIOR to working remote (or having the references which back you up)....and to be able to perform remotely (which takes a lot of discipline).

[wladimir]

that nobody is interested in any serious stuff being done remotely

From experience, I can say that this is simply not true. Obviously you have to get the right channels to find interesting assignments, and be able to build trust (have a good portfolio/CV) but a blanket statement like yours doesn't make sense.

BTW, even if it pays somewhat less than having a full-time corporate "career", some people just like a more adventurous life than just sitting in an office all day. Now, and not at some non-descript time in the future when "retiring". It might not be for you but don't pass value judgements.

[jessedhillon]

Thank you 1000x for stating this. I've never heard of anyone doing anything significant and living this way. Before he made money selling books on how to design lifestyles, what did Chris Guillebeau do for money? Be a grad student, I think. (As in, live off his stipend.)

[soulbow]

He's not the only one to lead this lifestyle and write about it. Tim Ferris started a sports supplement company to fund his travels before writing "The 4-Hour Work Week."

One doesn't have to be a programmer or designer to lead a lifestyle like this, though those professions are more location independent by their nature.

[jessedhillon]

> One doesn't have to be a programmer or designer to lead a lifestyle like this

That's not my point. My point is that, regardless of what you do work on, it will be rather inconsequential (by the norms of SV perhaps).

[ahoyhere]

I've done it and I "do significant things." Instead of being grateful for somebody confirming your suspicions, you'll find it pays to investigate the truth.

[jessedhillon]

A) What do you do that is significant (by SV norms, not your personal, subjective standard for self-satisfaction)? B) A string of corroborating anecdotes is not proof (notwithstanding a cliche about anecdotes * N == data for large N)

Let me be more clear about significance. My statement is that people don't do what is done in SV by trotting around the world, working from their laptops in internet cafes. What is done in SV?

* Start or work at billion dollar startups.

* Create disruptive technologies and build businesses around them.

* Network with the most brilliant minds in business, engineering, etc.

Creating an app that can pay the bill for a bungalow in Phuket (for example) is a great achievement and congratulations on being able to do it. You deserve all the awesome titles that you've listed in your profile.

However, it's not what I would call significant, by these standards. I'm sorry if you feel offended by my choice of the word significant, I really am, but I am saying that there is a difference in scale between what a globetrotter can do and "the rest of us" -- and there is a limitation on the former.

[kristiandupont]

Not everybody lives in SV. By your logic, could someone who doesn't travel but lives somewhere else achieve anything significant?

[jessedhillon]

I'm not making a statement about those people, but what I said still applies: the opportunities on that list are available in SV, and a small number of other places in the US. Not in Saigon or Amsterdam -- at least not to a large number of people.

HN is about news that happens mostly in SV, or is relevant to it. It's about startups -- high-risk, scalable businesses -- and SV is where they are (at least, many, many of the successful ones are). I'd expect that a solid majority of the readership is based in this area too.

My premise is this: people who choose to live and work in SV have huge opportunities that exist (almost) nowhere else. Sure, you can setup a consultancy and dabble in a few side projects while you make your way around the globe and have remarkable experiences.

But let's not pretend that, if you choose to do this, you are exposed to the same opportunities as the rest of us -- you're not.

[nomadznu]

If that's the message you got from this, I guess you read it differently than what we meant. We're not saying this lifestyle is 'walhallah'. It comes with risks, costs, and you have to be 'strong' to do it. Hence the remarks we made in the presentation. But that's what we were willing to 'pay'.

What we meant to say by the presentation is that living the life as it is preached in modern (capitalist) society can be questioned.

For us, travelling is far more important than building that big career and earning a lot of money. Instead of living the life expected and waiting until we're 67 to do this while retired, we decided to do it now. For someone else their dream might be totally different, and the solution to that too. That's exactly what lifestyledesign is all about: designing your life as you want it.

Check out the Ted video of Stefan Sagmeister on mini-retirements. It might give you a different perspective :)

So I totally respect you view on travelling: I can imagine that many people think 'I don't want to work on a vacation'. But the main thing was: when you like travelling, and you want to do this now, it can be done.

*Saying webdesign or online communication is not 'serious stuff' is in a way hurting a bit. Ouch :) I mean: I've built my experience over the last 11 years. Saying it is not that valuable is, well, cannot really give a good reaction to it.

[smikhanov]

Thanks for taking my (excessively harsh sometimes) comment with a smile. I apologize if the load of value judgement there hurts.

Usual response I have for my friends who work and travel in South-East Asia is in the vein of "make sure you don't postpone to start your career until when you 67 -- it might be too late already". No more no less.

Someone's willingness to work now and travel later, just like doing the opposite, deserves equal respect. That's the story :)

[fmavituna]

Ironically, we are trying to find people who can work remotely (.NET) and funny enough, no one is interested in doing serious stuff remotely :)

[iramiller]

It may be because you appear to be targeting a smaller niche than just "doing serious stuff remotely"...

Finding someone with extensive .NET experience, both web and desktop development history and a deep understanding of web security is enough of a challenge in itself. When you add in the GMT+0 work requirement your working pool of remote workers is even smaller still.

Regardless I imagine that for any work with a distributed team the problem of finding highly specialized talent with the willingness to work remote is universal.

[fmavituna]

All we need is experienced .NET developers (desktop) rest of them just good to have but totally optional.

Actually right now even GMT+0 is optional as we now more time zones in the team -5 to +2 and I'll update the jobs page accordingly.

[Johngibb]

I'm actually looking to do remote .NET work, and have almost 4 years of experience. Can you shoot me an email and I can send you my resume? My email is my HN username @ gmail.com

[fmavituna]

Great, I just did.

[artmageddon]

I'm not sure how many .Net developers you're looking for(especially remote), but this is something I'd be interested in hearing more about also if you don't mind emailing me at [e-mail]...

[kristiandupont]

Well, my situation counters many of the statements you made there (granted, it's hard to objectively say whether or not I am "worrying about my future").

I am sure that it's not for you as you say but it sounds like you are rationalizing it.

[jbrains]

I'd say that any project where someone decides to spend hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars is pretty serious.

[ahoyhere]

I've done work for several Fortune 50 companies while traveling around the world -- design work that got written up in business and trade magazines.

You're just flat-out wrong about "serious stuff."

Also, a couple of my friends - Romanians - have spent more than the past year traveling around South America, so you are mistaken about having to "be from the first-class country to take advantage of the visa requirements with your passport," as well. Finally, health insurance from many countries covers emergencies overseas -- and for Americans, there are several specific options for travelers.

Sure, you say it's not for you and I believe you. It's not for me either, I've learned from experience. But a lot of the other things you say aren't factual.

[smikhanov]

Don't want to make it too personal, but Romania is as much of a first-class country as Austria (EU member for 4 years now), so that only confirms what I'm saying.

[aliston]

I was able to do freelance iPhone development. If you're already good in C++, it will give you a leg up in learning objective-c.

Also, I could not agree more with the points about "working needs discipline." If you're staying in hostels, I would basically say forget it. I found it INCREDIBLY difficult to sit down and code when I was traveling around in hostels (like a tourist) and surrounded by fun people and things to do. In BA, I an apartment like the OP, which made getting work done a bit more tolerable (but still very challenging given the surroundings...)

[nomadznu]

We would advise not to do this while staying in hostels. Hostels are way too much fun, packed with people travelling and having fun. One needs a work environment to get work done.

Our trick was: arrive in a city/location and stay in in hostel/hotel for a few days. Meanwhile drive around/ask around/do couchsurfing to get to know places/check the local craigslist. And find yourself an apartment to live in.

Couchsurfing helped us a lot to get to know locals. A co-office did the trick in Buenos Aires. It costs money, but sitting in a coffeshops costs a lot of lattés too. :)

[devedev1234]

I've done a remote C++ work on decently sized projects (across us states and international one project taking 2 years to complete) it really depends on your skill set, reputation and who you know I guess

there is a lot more to the world then silly websites

[stoney]

I wouldn't focus on technologies if you are interested in doing this - focus on the types of work/projects you can do. What job could you do from home? If you can do it from home you can do it from anywhere.

For example, I am a researcher at a university (an employee, not a grad student). I don't want to go into details, but basically I do a lot of numerical modelling-type work and model development. I use lots of different technologies to do it (including C++ at times). I work on the opposite side of the planet to where my university is located and it works well.

Meetings are the only slightly problematic area. Skype is ok, but really not ideal for more than one on one meetings.

[Harkins]

Web stuff works for me. Demand is high enough that there are companies willing to take part-time workers.

[georgieporgie]

How do you go about finding new work remotely? Is it primarily return business from previous clients?

[Harkins]

Return business is primary, yes. There's standard networking things like building a blog and being friendly, but also nonstandard networking: http://push.cx/craftsmanship-calendar

That calendar is way out of date now (it's on the TODO list to update tomorrowish), but spending time programming with people has done wonderful things for my network, my skills, my exposure to tech I'd otherwise ignore, my social skills, my vertical leap...

[jbrains]

I don't think it's about a specific technology: it's about a particular organisation and working group. If they're willing to work with someone who telecommutes, then perhaps they're willing to work with someone who works while they sleep.

[cheez]

I think the reason for this is C++ is the new COBOL with the commensurate PHBs.

[nostrademons]

The kinds of things you need C++ for - high-performance webservers, database engines, 3D renderers, etc. - often require very close communication between team members to get right. They're deep, not broad - the software is structured as a series of layers, and if you don't get the interfaces between the layers just right, the software won't even compile. Typical webapps are much more horizontal - they consist of a series of screens, and once the basic webserver framework is in place, developers can pretty much parcel out portions of the UI and work on them independently.

[rdouble]

In my experience it's the opposite. The C++ savant can write the high performance webserver from his basement in Estonia, but you need the webdevs around so they can collaborate with the design team, ops, and product management. When it's deep, work units can be split into days or weeks, which lends itself pretty well to disconnected, remote work. When it's broad, you need to constantly keep everyone on the same page, which equals daily stand-ups, 24x7 chatrooms and other agile forms of humiliation.

[cheez]

This is not true. You can just parcel out those kinds of projects as well (my personal experience) if you are a competent manager.

What you are comparing is complexity. Yes, it is easier to parcel out the typical web app than a database engine.

[Game_Ender]

In domains with real time performance constraints it's difficult to use anything but C or C++. Many of those domains are at the forefront of current technological development, so I wouldn't lump C++ in with COBOL just yet.