[renewiltord]

Well, we know what the alternative is. People have less tomato planting time because they spend longer commuting.

So we optimize to put people close to their jobs so they get lots of leisure time with their family.

If they don't want that they can always live farther out. That way everyone is happy.

[tovej]

That's not the alternative at all. The alternative is sensible city planning with mixed zoning neighborhoods that create comfortable centers all around the city. Add metros, bike lanes, and parks and you have a pleasant city instead of a concrete jungle or a suburban sprawl.

[renewiltord]

I'll believe it when I see it. Every American development like this is a massive money hole.

[tovej]

Look around Europe and you can see it. The reason US city development is a money hole is because you do city-level urban services in sprawling communities. The tax-payer density is just not high enough to economically support the cost of that infrastructure.

[renewiltord]

Sure, I used to live there. But that's no model for US cities. It's like transplanting a cow's stomach into me to help me digest grass.

The political situation and the relative expectations of the local communities are sufficiently different so as to cause European style urban planning to fail here. You have to engineer to the human and political constraints as well.

US towns and cities are drunk on debt and bailouts and that is a competitive constraint on growth.