[natch]

That doesn’t take away the fact that the physical controls are there for the using.

As well as automatic and voice controls.

As with any car, if the driver chooses to look away from the road for any reason, they have to be responsible about it, and they did have other options here.

[deanak]

As I said in another reply, Tesla is the only company advertising automated driving and other features that don't work in edge cases which is bad news for staying alive, even if you aren't the person driving a Tesla. They are also actively removing standard physical controls that have been around for decades, and through design, they are training people to rely on a touchscreen device that is not consistent or reliable.

Sure there are people who also hit cruise control on a 96 Accord and expect it to drive itself, but Honda never told them that would work. These are the kind of realities Tesla should responsibly deal with as a mass market manufacturer, but they don't want to take the PR hit to accept accountability and potentially have to refund millions of dollars for a feature that doesn't work as advertised. They'd rather blame the drivers for as long as they can get away with it.

[natch]

> training people to rely on a touchscreen device that is not consistent or reliable.

This is a common misconception, easily avoided by getting some firsthand experience owning a Tesla.

We literally do not use the touchscreen for driving. And for that matter, almost not at all while driving.

As with any tool there will be those who misuse it and put others at risk. I look forward to hearing you give even a single example where a human driver was not to blame. And, preemptively so you won’t waste your own time, I don’t mean citing links where if you dig in you find that the link does not support your case.

It’s true that over time people will learn to rely on controls less and less. The world has been through similar transitions with horse and buggy -> car for example. There will be accidents along the way but the end result will be a world with far fewer accidents.

Its possible there is a better way to get to that world, but I haven’t thought of one. Perfect systems do not just spring up out of nowhere.

[deanak]

> This is a common misconception, easily avoided by getting some firsthand experience owning a Tesla.

So a software update has never changed the order or location of user interface elements?

> I look forward to hearing you give even a single example where a human driver was not to blame

https://www.tesladeaths.com/

There are at least 3 known cases where autopilot failed and someone died. (Also note that no one has died from the failure of Waymo or SuperCruise driver assist tech.) Here are a few articles in the past few days on the same subject.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/23/business/teslas-autopilot...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2021/04/20/tesla-a...

https://www.consumerreports.org/car-safety/fatal-driverless-...

The NTSB has also outlined the many issues with Tesla's autopilot feature.

https://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Documents/2020-HWY18FH011-B...

> The investigation identified the following safety issues:

> - Driver Distraction.

> - Risk Mitigation Pertaining to Monitoring Driver Engagement.

> - Risk Assessment Pertaining to Operational Design Domain.

> - Limitations of Collision Avoidance Systems.

> - Insufficient Federal Oversight of Partial Driving Automation Systems.

> - Need for Event Data Recording Requirements for Driving Automation Systems.

As far as I know, Tesla has not even responded to this report. A good place to start heading towards that better world is for Tesla to demonstrate some accountability.

[natch]

>There are at least 3 known cases where autopilot failed and someone died.

Depending how you falsely define "failure," Autopilot can be falsely said to fail all the time.

If you set an unrealistic bar, it can fail each and every second of every drive, according to some fallacious definitions.

Fully replacing the driver is not a claimed feature of the current system.

Future systems, sure. But current systems? Nope.

Therefore, as has been clearly stated in many places, the human driver is responsible for maintaining safe operation of the vehicle.

So, the human is to blame in these cases, not Autopilot.

[deanak]

Why are you getting into the definition of fallacious? Read the NTSB report.

> The Tesla Autopilot system did not provide an effective means of monitoring the driver’s level of engagement with the driving task, and the timing of alerts and warnings was insufficient to elicit the driver’s response to prevent the crash or mitigate its severity. Requirements are needed for driver monitoring systems for advanced driver assistance systems that provide partial driving automation (SAE Level 2 systems), and Tesla needs to develop applications that more effectively sense the driver’s level of engagement and that alert drivers who are not engaged...

> Despite the system’s known limitations, Tesla does not restrict where Autopilot can be used. Tesla should incorporate system safeguards that limit the use of partial driving automation systems (Autopilot) to those conditions for which they were designed...

> The Tesla’s collision avoidance assist systems were not designed to, and did not, detect the crash attenuator. Because this object was not detected, (a) Autopilot accelerated the SUV to a higher speed, which the driver had previously set by using adaptive cruise control, (b) the forward collision warning did not provide an alert, and (c) the automatic emergency braking did not activate. For partial driving automation systems to be safely deployed in a high-speed operating environment, collision avoidance systems must be able to effectively detect potential hazards and warn of potential hazards to drivers

Autopilot 1) failed to detect a distracted driver and engage them, 2) is not limited by Tesla to areas where it actually works, and 3) depends on collision avoidance which does not work. Tesla is claiming they will solve these problems without LiDAR. Volvo, Waymo, GM, VW, and many more claim that even semi-autonomous driving isn't possible without it. We'll see how many more people have to die before Tesla changes their mind.

[natch]

We have to be careful about moving the goalposts to measure Autopilot according to supposed qualities it never claims to have.

It’s likely that implementing the suggested solutions would add more problems than it solves. For one thing some of them would exacerbate one problem you seem to be concerned about, driver overconfidence and over reliance on the system.

So while these bureaucratic opinions are fascinating, like many such committee driven conclusions they should be taken with a grain of salt. Tesla has thought things through pretty well.

Ultimately the best solution for now imho is to keep full responsibility with the driver.