[allendoerfer]

Compare Berlin rents to any European capital. Man, reading all those replies, Germans do live in a bubble and do not know how privileged they are. Take a step back, look at London, realize how good you have it, just rent an apartment instead of buying one, put your money in the stock market and wait for the population to decline and the bubble to burst.

[durnygbur]

The difficult part in renting is compiling the documentation and to get accepted as a tenant. The dividend and capital gains taxes of 26.4% efficiently cool down unexperienced individual investors. The last 10 years have basically invalidated the possibility of buying housing for any individual on employment contract. Before anything will pop within next 10 years, German boomers will be chocking the remaining population even with their last death throes (while the elites holding the industry will be only consolidating their influence). ie. "the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent, young, and sane".

[ivanche]

It's true that the capital gains taxes are really high. But there are at least some exempts: 1) first 801€ for an individual or 1602€ for a couple are tax free (every year); 2) if you invest in ETFs that invest primarily in stocks first 30% of capital gains are tax free

[allendoerfer]

> 2) if you invest in ETFs that invest primarily in stocks first 30% of capital gains are tax free

Citation needed.

I would argue the point is actuallly the opposite: Capital gains taxes are actually lower than income taxes on your salary. Properties do have an unfair advantage, though, because they can be sold tax free after 10 years.

We do need something like a 401k. But if you read the election manifestos of different parties for September, they are indeed in there.

[ivanche]

> Citation needed

Here are 2 links that explain in detail [0] [1]. I'm sorry I misinformed you about Steuerbescheinigung - it's not visible there, but it is when you do Steuererklärung with smartsteuer.de.

[0] https://www.lohnsteuer-kompakt.de/fag/2020/2895/was_ist_die_...

[1] https://www.fondsclever.de/ratgeber/lexikon-investmentfonds/...

[allendoerfer]

Interesting, I was only aware about "Vorabpauschale". I read that this one ("Teilfreistellung") evens out, because in turn taxes for fonds increased.

[ivanche]

> Citation needed.

I will try to provide a screenshot from Steuerbescheinigung that Scalable Capital sent me a few days ago.

Also, if something like 401K (with matching, hehe) is really implemented one day in Germany, it will be a big step ahead. Right now people are constantly robbed with various corporate pension plans that just pour money into Allianz and other insurance companies for "only" 2% TER.

[ChuckNorris89]

>Compare Berlin rents to any European capital.

Just resorting to whataboutism at every step doesn't magically make rents in Germany cheaper more easy to obtain for those in Germany.

The fact that Parisians or Londoners or Tokyans(is that even a word?) have expensive rents doesn't help me when I live in Germany since they're completely different markets and I only compete in my local market, not with those in Paris/London/Tokyo.

[allendoerfer]

HN readers learn a word that often helps to win arguments and then go on and try to use it everywhere.

Whataboutism is to use a different issue to show that the first issue is not that big, even though the second issue does not actually take away from the first issue and the first issue is worth discussing on its own.

What I am saying is: Rent in Germany is relatively inexpensive (even compared to income and especially compared to property prices). Because how do you determine if something is inexpensive? You compare it to something else. Comparing prices to determine if something is expensive is not whataboutism.