[eric_cc]

> Cryptocurrencies just don't [have value]. It's all smoke and mirrors

> super-immoral going-nowhere-moral tech

lol what? Is US dollar moral? Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors" by your definition since it's just paper that we all believe has value?

[2pEXgD0fZ5cF]

> Is US dollar moral? Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors"

US Dollar and other "real" currencies are and can be used for payments and transactions (money in exchange for goods, services etc.). Cryptocurrencies are only converted to/from other currencies to make profits based on speculation.

[s3krit]

Disclaimer: I don't know world global finance, I don't know much about economics, I hold several cryptocurrencies. I am fantastically unqualified to actually make this post.

I was curious about this comment, because I know FOREX is a massive market. According to [1] the daily volume of FOREX in USD is $6.1 trillion. According to [2], the average 'consumer unit' (ugh... I guess that means 'person'?) in the US spends about $63k per year. Let me know if my maths or methodology here is wrong because, and I cannot stress this enough, I am a moron acting in good faith but a moron nonetheless... (63 000 / 365) * 330 000 000 (the US population) = 56958904109.6, or $57bn. That's a lot but it's only (conveniently) about 1% of the volume of the FOREX market. Which means what, the vast majority of USD changing hands is in the form of 'converted to/from other currencies to make profits based on speculation'?

Again, please let me know if my methodology is broken, my sources are shit, whatever.

[1] https://www.compareforexbrokers.com/forex-trading/statistics... [2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/247407/average-annual-co...

[2pEXgD0fZ5cF]

I think one would have to factor in how much of the population is actually personally involved in that, the rich hold a large majority of all the money and wealth [1] and the amounts of money they move are lightyears away from the amount of money an "average" person uses for everything their daily life encompasses.

A rich person can move more money than whole towns combined. We are left with the question: Which one does better reflect the "actual" usage of money? 2-3 rich people doing speculations or thousands of "regular" people (living expenses, entertainment, work supplies etc.) with way less money?

Compared to that there is the problem that something like bitcoin is actively harmful towards practical usage due to the extremely high transaction cost, slow transactions, volatility, absolute lack of privacy, extremely high energy cost (that already surpasses whole countries with only very few people using it).

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_Unite...

[tome]

> the average 'consumer unit' (ugh... I guess that means 'person'?) in the US spends about $63k per year

Surely it means 'household'? There's no way the average American spends $63k per year. That's more than the average salary.

[knorker]

> lol what? Is US dollar moral?

What exactly is your argument?

> Is it not also "smoke-and-mirrors" by your definition since it's just paper that we all believe has value?

USD is backed by the mostly aligned incentives of the whole world in general, and the biggest company in the world in particular, and by the largest military might and nuclear arsenal, ultimately.

USD is paper and bits we believe has value. BTC is bits that most people believe doesn't have value. And that everyone knows will never displace USD because (see above) won't allow it.

[eric_cc]

> USD is paper and bits we believe has value.

Speak for yourself.

> BTC is bits that most people believe doesn't have value.

This is changing rapidly, is it not?

[knorker]

>> USD is paper and bits we believe has value.

> Speak for yourself.

Raaa-haaaight. Next time you don't believe USD has value you'll skip picking up that $100 bill on the street. When you get robbed you'll laugh and give the robber your worthless USD and say "good luck using this for anything!".

>> BTC is bits that most people believe doesn't have value.

> This is changing rapidly, is it not?

I wouldn't say so, no.

[mvolfik]

I'm not a crypto supporter, but I'd say that he is right there. If _you_ found private key to a wallet with 1 BTC somewhere, would you leave it be? Even if you can't buy a coffee with it, the exchangability for USD is real.

[knorker]

Ok, fair. But I prefer a value backed by the whole world and the biggest military in the world.

[cies]

So kicking puppies hypothetically in case of crypto is replaced by actual military deployment to every nation thats a thread to the petro-dollar.

And then you are fine with it.

Good luck with the ignorance.

[nullsmack]

Yes. For one thing you can buy stuff with it because it is legal tender for all debts. For another thing the value is mostly the same from day to day. You're not going to go buy bread today and have it be 10% more expensive than it was yesterday, or 30% less expensive next week.

Cryptocurrencies are not currencies. Bitcoin might be priced at $63,000 today (or $48,000 or 53,000 or oops 30,000 tomorrow?) but it's worth is $0.