[haberman]

> It's true. If we applied the same rules to countries that we do to the mafia, you'd be a criminal conspirator in an agency that has routinely used murder for control and profit.

And your hero Che Guevara?

[wnight]

So, you do agree though, right?

[haberman]

By your standards no one has clean hands, which makes your standards unsuitable for achieving the moral superiority that you so clearly desire.

[wnight]

The world is full of people who haven't made war and enslaved others for their own gain, but is short on countries that have not.

But the complicity of other countries in no way lessens the fact that much of the USA's wealth, and thus success, is stolen.