[decafninja]

I guess political tribalism was certainly a big factor, but I always thought it was something that amplified an already existing characteristic for "rugged individualism", as in, a tendency for people not liking being told what they can or can't do.

It exists to various degrees in pretty much any culture (even highly collectivist cultures like some Asian countries), but in the USA, I think it's seen as a bedrock upon which the country was founded on and successful with. I don't disagree, and I think this individualist go-get-em culture contributed to some of the country's successes, but in times like this, it certainly shows its dark side.

You could chalk up the whole US healthcare system fiasco to this too.

[donw]

Tribalism was certainly a significant factor, but I would wager that inconsistency played a bigger role:

- Major political figures publicly flaunted their own mask mandates and lockdown rules, with zero consequences.

"The rules are for you, not us" is not how you get people to come together to fight a pandemic.

- Media condemning social gatherings as super-spreader events, while at the same time, endorsing only very specific riots/protests.

- At the start of the pandemic, everybody wanted masks.

The CDC then stated masks were ineffective.

After that, if you tried to get ahold of masks, you were attacked for doing so. I personally witnessed this tens of times. The same people then flipped around and attacked you if you didn't wear a mask.

It was straight out of the last scene in Orwell's 1984. It was spooky.

Later, the CDC came out and said, "Hey, we lied to you to guarantee a supply of masks for medical personnel. But you should totally trust us now!"

- Media in the US was and is literally nothing but fearporn, which has largely bifurcated the population into "living in terror" and "fresh out of fucks to give".

There's plenty more examples, but I'll stop here.

The inconsistency would have been workable if it wasn't for the violence and anger. Your ability to publicly change your mind without sacrificing credibility inversely correlates to the violence of your opinion.

[ShroudedNight]

> At the start of the pandemic, everybody wanted masks.

> The same people then flipped around and attacked you if you didn't wear a mask.

I'm of the opinion that the CDC definitely shot itself in the foot w.r.t. the mask issue initially, but I feel it's important to note that the especially belligerent individualists wanted masks when they thought they would protect themselves, but were completely uninterested in their use when they were determined to primarily be effective as a form of source control to protect others.

[donw]

Both false and irrelevant.

The most violent people I observed were the ones that flipped from "you don't need a mask, and you're too stupid to wear one anyway: they're complex medical equipment that requires training" to "if you don't wear a mask you're literally killing grandma".

It was amazingly counterproductive.

The goal is to get people to mask up. If they believe doing so will protect them, then good. If they believe doing so will protect others, also good. It does not matter which of these they believe.

[ShroudedNight]

What is false and irrelevant?

I'll readily admit that my assertion was based on anecdotal experience, and was probably worded with more objective confidence than warranted, but my experience was that those hostile to the idea that masks were most effective if reserved for front-line medical PPE, were also those hostile to the idea of being obligated to wear a mask for others' sake.

> The goal is to get people to mask up.

Is this a bad thing? Do you believe that there is some ulterior motive in this beyond expected improvements in infection control?

[throwawayboise]

100% spot on. Almost exactly how I saw things go where I am, including the flip-flopping on masks/gloves.

[richardw]

Perception from SA is that Australians are fairly strict rule followers. Personally I’d like more of that, but some friends didn’t like it at all.

Doggy bags discouraged: https://www.foodsafety.com.au/blog/are-restaurant-doggy-bags... (That would astound most SA’ns)

First mandatory cycling helmets: https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/899922/are-cyclists-i...

[kbenson]

Yeah, not allowing leftovers for meals bought to be taken with you would not go over well in the U.S. either, for multiple reasons.