[baq]

maybe start from the names: socialism tries to put society first, capitalism tries to put capital first. western europe democracies try to be 'social capitalism', with mixed results, but maybe not as disastrous and scary as some folks here would like them to be.

[cies]

Capitalism puts capital first, sure, but it is necessary to say it specifically puts person-owned capital first.

Economically the USSR had capital too, but it was mostly owned collectively (by the state).

Hence I define the two in terms of the people that actually own stuff.

[baq]

fair points, but one could argue that USSR wasn't necessarily a socialist state. it was totalitarian, which somehow gets more confused with socialist the further west you go and ask.

[cies]

> USSR wasn't necessarily a socialist state

it wasn't communist (defined as: no money, no classes, no state). it was commi thoug