[websites2323]

I’m going to go ahead and say if you haven’t gotten onboard with USB C by now you’re behind. It’s been half a decade since the USB A port went away on Mac. I know everyone has their legacy peripherals they love but... it’s time to move on.

[mort96]

They're not "legacy peripherals". Mice and keyboards are far from "legacy", and almost all of them come with USB A cables still.

Having to add a flaky USB hub to your desktop just to plug in your keyboard is actually ridiculous. It makes sense on a laptop, but these desktops have _a lot_ of surface area on which they could put a few USB-A ports.

EDIT: Though, Apple removing the USB-A ports from everything might be what the industry needs to push peripherals to use USB-C for everything? If that's the case, then that might be a win for everyone, except for people who buy these new iMacs.

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

I don't think "most" mice and keyboards are USB-A: bluetooth peripherals eclipsed wired peripherals ages ago.

Yes, most of the decent new ones charge via USB-C.

[mort96]

So, I was curious if you are correct and the market has changed a lot, or if I'm correct and most peripherals still use USB-A. So I checked out the website of a tech reseller, sorted their keyboards by most sold, and counted the technology used.

Before I stopped counting, I found 8 wireless keyboards using bluetooth, 9 wireless keyboards using a USB-A receiver, and 10 wired keyboards using a USB-A cable. It seems like USB-A is still alive and well in the peripheral ecosystem.

Here's a link to the search results page I used: https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbeho...

It's a website which is commonly used by gamers, so wired keyboards may be over-represented compared to the general population. But it clearly shows that actually, USB-A is still really commonly used in new peripherals sold today.

[thirdsun]

In the context of discussing the port selection of an iMac let's not forget that the device already comes with wireless keyboard and mouse/trackpad. While using your own input devices is an option very few customers will want to make use of it.

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

Yeah, it should go without saying that gamers and people who code are in a different class: hobbyists. I'm one of them, and most of the people on this site are too. We love our periphs. I have a wireless (mech) keyboard and a wireless mouse that both charge via usb-C cables, though it is something I filtered by when I was shopping for them a year or so ago in anticipation of this happening.

I think Apple (correctly) determined that these folks will tolerate whatever they put out, buy adapters to use their beloved special keyboard, etc. And for the ones who won't tolerate it: they're probably not buying Apple hardware anyway.

[mort96]

I mean, now your argument has changed from "most peripherals use bluetooth so it doesn't matter" to "most peripherals use USB-A, but many Apple users will nonetheless tolerate the lack of USB-A on their desktops". I can't really argue against that, and maybe it's correct.

EDIT: Just to respond to the "gamers and people who code are in a different class" thing: I went to a different store which is more general, went through the most sold keyboards, and skipped all "gaming" keyboards (so everything from Razer, everything branded Logitech G, everything with RGB), and counted to 14 bluetooth keyboards and 19 keyboards which require USB-A (7 wired, 12 with the USB receiver dongle). People just use USB-A peripherals a whole lot. (Store URL: https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no...)

[rrrrrrrrrrrryan]

I think we mostly agree, we're just splitting hairs over the word "use". I'd say my mouse "uses" bluetooth instead of USB, even though it does still technically "use" USB as well to charge, albeit very infrequently.

I am surprised that most peripherals do still use USB-A to charge, and my argument did change to reflect that new information.

[slantyyz]

I have a recent vintage Logitech mouse (came out this year). The charging port on the mouse, is USB-C, but the charging cable it came with was still A to C. Same goes for the 2.4Ghz unified dongle it came with.

[etqwzutewzu]

Logitech MX Master 3 for Mac and MX Anywhere 3 for Mac have USB-C to USB-C charging.

[slantyyz]

I have the generic Graphite MX Anywhere 3

[websites2323]

The receiver being USBA is a definitely a miss on Logitech’s part. BT is spotty on my macs with these mice.

[martinald]

You can get USB A to USB C adaptors for like $1. They work totally fine.

[websites2323]

All mac computers except the Mac Mini come with a keyboard and mouse. The Mac Mini 2 USB-A ports, which would be suitable for the keyboard and mouse with USB-A.

[fomine3]

Astonishing fact: Logitech still doesn't release USB Type-C Unifying adapter.

[hans-moleman]

Pretty sure that the USB dongle was a solution to have the mice work on all computers because at the time, pretty much all desktops had no Bluetooth connectivity. The next step for them is going all in on Bluetooth (at least for the casual user products).

[fomine3]

Probably. I still prefer dongle over BT because it's more stable, 100% work on UEFI/BIOS screen. I wish they keep it.

[slantyyz]

While I'm technical enough to know what to buy (most of the time) as it relates to USB-C, I think it's still a confusing mess for non-techy consumers, who aren't reading the fine print on USB-C related product descriptions when buying stuff.

A lot of USB-A to USB-C data cables sold on Amazon are still only USB 2.0 standard (480 mbps). Not all C to C cables can be used for high watt power delivery, etc. Some cables only charge. And then there's those USB-C and/or Thunderbolt docks whose video ports may or may not work depending on what your PC's capabilities are.

I think the creators of USB-C should have come up with some type of lettering or numbering system to reduce the confusion. At least there would be a chart that "normals" could refer to in terms of whether they're buying the right cable.

[tzs]

Until there are readily available, not too expensive, hubs that (1) hook up to the computer via a USB-C to USB-C cable, and (2) have multiple USB-C ports that you can use to hook up USB-C devices via USB-C to USB-C cables, it is not time to move on.

[OkGoDoIt]

Exactly! It’s crazy to me that more than 6 years into this USB-C journey, you still can’t buy a USB-C hub for under $100. Back in the day USB 2.0 hubs were under $50 within a couple years, and then practically free (literal giveaway swag) within 5 years.

[izacus]

Yep, we moved on. It's crazy just how much more pleasant it is to use my 13" Razer laptop, which is for all intents and purposes equivalent in built quality to my previous 13" MacBook Pro... except that the designers had an amazing idea to put 2 Thunderbolt USB-C ports and 2 USB-A ports on it.

No. More. Frigging. Dongles. For anything - you can plug both modern USB-C docks AND keyboards and USB sticks easily. Crazy.

[spectre3d]

The newest M1 Mac Mini has “Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)“ included as standard. [1]

Under "Connections and Expansion" [1] https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/

[progman32]

The cutting edge Valve Index sitting next to me connects via type A.

[cruano]

Do I really need to throw away my racing wheel just because it's USB A ? How about my Arduino ? Hell, my Apple Watch charger is USB A

Plenty of devices don't benefit from an "improved version with USB C" and in a computer this size it shouldn't be a problem to include at least one

[lupire]

$3 for a tiny adapter to put on your wheel or computer.

[arvinsim]

That's your wishful thinking talking.

Most people are still on USB-A, especially those who are not tech savvy.

[rchaud]

I'm writing this on my 2014 MBP that has:

- 2x USB ports

- 2x Thunderbolt ports

- 1x HDMI

"Half a decade" is not that long considering that the external mic I purchased in 2020 for WFH requires USB-A.

Why on earth would I want to switch to newer models that require a dongle for everything?

[BitwiseFool]

I'm perfectly fine with getting on-board with USB-C but I don't design the peripherals. The only USB-C product I own is a charging cable to a wireless mouse and the host end is USB-A.

[tachyonbeam]

Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine. I don't want to run my work machine off of wifi that could randomly disconnect in the middle of meetings though. I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack, but instead they're going to have you spend $20 on some adapter dongle.

As for USB-A, there are tons of peripherals still in existence out there. Maybe you're fucking loaded and you don't care about just buying everything USB-C, but that's definitely not the case for everyone. Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse and mechanical keyboard that I like for example, or a really nice $200 audio interface. I guess I need to buy yet more dongles, or throw them away and replace everything with USB-C peripherals because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy. Thanks Apple. You definitely value user experience above all else.

[websites2323]

>I guess I need to buy yet more dongles, or throw them away and replace everything with USB-C peripherals because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy.

The concern about dongles is so overblown. Let's take your examples each in turn.

>Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse

You buy a USB-C to USB-A adapter and it lives on the mouse's USB-A connector, never being taken off, forever. And then... it's one piece. Are you taking the mouse with you? The dongle comes with it. You don't gotta think about it.

>mechanical keyboard

Same deal. Lots of keyboards even have USB-A ports on them -- which means you only need 1 dongle. One for the keyboard. That lives on the end of the USB-A connector. You have now converted your legacy USB-A device to USB-C and can forget about it forever, for the cost of $5 from Monoprice.

>a really nice $200 audio interface

If you really, for some reason just cannot stand to add a $5 add-on piece to get the latest gear from Apple, many of these devices have detactable cables. So, you can just.. buy a different cable. Let's take the Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which matches your use case at $200. A replacement cable from MonoPrice is... $5.29. And you can put away the old cable and just... have this one.

At the very, very worst case, you're talking about a $1200 machine and an additional cash outlay of approximately $15. For adapters which attach to the thing you want to use, forever, and don't have to be thought of again.

And somehow this is a travesty against the user? Worth of a scrap-and-redesign of the $1200+ machine?

[karlshea]

Or get one of the tiny USB C hubs with four USB A ports on them. A hub like I have now anyways, for an iMac that still has USB A ports, because I needed to plug in more shit.

[diroussel]

The Ethernet port is included. It’s just on the power adapter rather than the back of the screen.

[reaperducer]

Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine.

No, it's not. It's a consumer-grade machine. And clearly aimed at that market.

[alwillis]

Consumers don't need Wide color P3 displays or the ability to attach a $5000 6K display. Clearly this machine can do professional level tasks, as demonstrated during the keynote.

I wrote about this further up in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718

[alwillis]

I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack

It's too thin to support a standard RJ45 port in the back like previous Macs.

macOS has supported Thunderbolt Ethernet/USB-A dongles for years if you want to go that route instead of using the Ethernet built-in to the power adapter.

[billyhoffman]

> because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy

This is not helpful