[donkeyd]

> Love the good pay.

> It pays relatively well ($15 per hour for most contract workers).

How is that relatively well? Compared to McDonald's employees, probably. Compared to other actual technical jobs, like electrician, I can't imagine. Compared to Google devs, not at all.

Working 40 hours a week with no vacation that's about 31k. Being a contractor means no sick leave, vacation days, pension, insurance, etc.

The US is such an odd country.

[caseysoftware]

> Compared to McDonald's employees, probably. Compared to other actual technical jobs, like electrician, I can't imagine.

When someone has few work skills - as noted in the article - do they more closely resemble a McDonald's employee or an electrician?

Yes, people with low/no skills and little/no experience tend to start in crap roles. Some people will not further their skills, abilities, or knowledge and stay there. Others - like Ms Wait in the article - will use it as a stepping stone to pay the bills as they grow and improve.

Wiping out low level jobs by paying "too much" (yes, entirely subjective) raises the bottom rung of the ladder but also puts it out of reach of others. There's no magic right number but there are dangers in having it too low or too high.

[jasonwatkinspdx]

Empirical evidence for the idea that raising the minimum wage in the US will lead to unemployment is quite weak. Those arguments may kick in at some point, but it's pretty clear we're way under the price level that would do that.

You're using some common rhetoric to reframe this entirely as one of personal volition. Just be like Ms Wait and pull yourself up the ladder. This is a form of the just world delusion, and ignores all the complex ways poverty can be a trap, or how people working at this end of the labor market are basically one roll of the dice away from financial ruin due to illness, car accident, etc.

[HarryHirsch]

Tell me - are there any possibilities of advancement in today's streamlined datacenter job? In the past, someone eager and capable might have been given training opportunities, but that doesn't really exist any longer, does it?

[filoleg]

Not sure about Amazon datacenters, but I know an actual person in real life who went from an unskilled Amazon warehouse worker to a full-time SDE at Amazon with zero previous coding experience or a relevant degree. All in a 1-year timespan iirc, simply going through one of the training programs that their warehouse offered.

Apparently, those on-the-job training programs that Amazon offers actually tend to work at times. And of course this is just a single datapoint not indicative of anything, but it kinda shows that those programs might actually work to a degree. I don't doubt that their success rate is likely not even close to 100%, but if it worked even for a chunk of the people attempting it, it is still something.

[throwaway0a5e]

It's not like they promote people on a schedule but BigCos typically use the lower levels as part of the hiring pool for the higher levels. This has benefits since you know that anyone already working that role already knows your policies and procedures and are basically pre-vetted so you don't have to worry about getting them 90% of the way through the pipeline then failing the drug test or background check.

There's basically no chance of moving into a white collar role internally unless you get a degree but there's definitely room for advancement. Though you could probably advance faster by jumping ship.

[caseysoftware]

Nope, doesn't look like it. Google is screwing over tons of people here and obviously they're not alone.

Why do we "trust" them again?

[username90]

Training unskilled workers and giving them normal professional worker wages is screwing them over how? It isn't like they would be better off at mcdonalds.

[caseysoftware]

Teaching them skills and laying them off without cause is screwing them over. If you also consider that the skills they teach aren't enough to get them to the next level, it's worse.

This is covered in great detail in the article.

[the_only_law]

> Compared to other actual technical jobs, like electrician,

FWIW, these people seem to be people who otherwise have no skilled work experience.

To compare I’ve seen electrician apprenticeships paying less than that.

[Frost1x]

>The US is such an odd country.

It's not odd once you understand our culture celebrates and almost worships exploitation of some form or the other. It may be exploitation of science and engineering leading to technological growth that we can all share, it may be exploitation of natural resources we've found for a bargain, it may be exploitation of human labor finding how the least amounts can be spent of necessary labor to maximize revenue.

The recent focus to me seems to be on targeting labor and optimizing those costs since the low hanging socially acceptable fruits are starting to give diminishing returns that can't meet some peoples' insatiable appetites for financial growth. This contract position is yet another story of yet another casuality in the cost optimization war by business against human labor expenses.

[sct202]

So in the context of this article, contract means that Google hires a company (Modis) for specific work, and Modis hires workers who Google considers to be from the contract company. Modis workers get benefits (healthcare, retirement, vacation) from Modis if they are eligible based on Modis's policies and if they're full time. This is different than an independent contractor, who would have to self fund all benefits.

[throwaway0a5e]

"other actual technical jobs, like electrician," have barriers to entry.

Ms Wait would have to break her back schlepping spools around a jobsite for a few years before she could get onto the actual electrician career track.

Before they took away the light at the end of the tunnel schlepping batteries around for Google was just as good.

[pessimizer]

> Ms Wait would have to break her back schlepping spools around a jobsite for a few years before she could get onto the actual electrician career track.

Ms Wait would be paid >=$15 to do this.

[throwaway0a5e]

Maybe she'd get $16, but anywhere where data-center techs are making 15 general construction laborers aren't gonna be making much more and they don't get to work indoors.

[simfree]

In Seattle today, union electrical apprentices often earn under $18hr, while Safeway is paying new hires $20hr in Seattle and Bellevue.

General construction does not pay that much unless your licensed, bonded and running your own business or have a decade or more in with the union.

[unreal37]

They were hired with no skills and trained on the job.

Now, 2 years later, they can get a job at any data center. They can work for Google, AWS, Azure, or any data center they wish. On the job training is the sweet bit.

[geodel]

> The US is such an odd country.

I guess this is why no one want to come to US to work as contractors.

[rtkwe]

People taking a deal doesn’t mean it’s not exploitative, it just means it’s enough of an improvement (or the downsides of not taking it are bad enough) [0] that people take the deal. Indentured servitude was for some a willingly taken deal but that doesn’t mean it’s something we should bring back as a common, endorsed arrangement...

[0] In the US not working is a shitty way to live.

[geodel]

> or the downsides of not taking it are bad enough

Crucial point is are the bad enough or worse than taking a deal.

I'd say we should shut up and work to create better deal for workers , instead of just telling people that "you do not know you are so exploited". To me it is no better than telling people "Just be lucky" or "Just be rich"

[rtkwe]

I hear this a lot as if the groups and people talking about exploitative work situations aren't also pushing for things that would make these situations less exploitative and to make the consequences of not working less dire through socialized health care or similar programs... That's tough to do in the US system for a number of reasons so one thing that probably has to happen before the legislative solutions can happen is to get more people to realize they're being taken advantage of. (At the very least it should make it easier to address!)

[C19is20]

I don't. ....want to.