[marakv2]

I'm reading through these first level comments and just wondering how the hell anyone here would react to a non-white collar job.

Now to put this into perspective, I agree with most of you! But the freedom you guys have (quit, say noz find a new job) etc just won't work for the rest of us.

I'm not saying this to look down on you guys, just trying to give a different perspective if this wasn't a white collar job

Edit: I will reply, but I'm about to start work and I won't finish for another 13 hours (30 mins still left on my daily transit)

[intergalplan]

Most of tech workers aren't half as free as the 5-years-at-FAANG-plus-a-moderately-successful-exit-already-got-my-Fuck-You-money folks who hang around this site. Most are working on boring Java programs or managing corporate networks, for well under mid-tier doctor compensation. Certainly not SF tech-giant money. And that's just in the US, let alone internationally, where comp even in tech-heavy cities doesn't approach FAANG-on-the-West-Cost or finance-in-NY-and-Chi salaries. The profession as a whole is a damn sight closer to blue-collar than we all want to pretend it is, and social status bears that out, especially (again) outside SF tech & VC circles. The fancy-B-school CEO at your tech startup is socially superior to the highly-paid tech nerds. That's just how class in America works. Earn enough money as a tech nerd and maybe your kids will be the next rung up the ladder, if you make the right choices especially re: where to send them to school (and I don't mean higher ed).

Expressions of superiority over or freedom from management on here are class-anxious posturing, expressions of a lived reality by a rare few, and sheer fantasy the rest of the time.

[marakv2]

I've read through this multiple times and I am just missing your point.

I am not US based nor a faang worker.

My point was about how difficult it is for a blue collar worker to push back against anything, and while I appreciate that it may be difficult for you, or any other programmer, have a look at us lower slobs as well.

You strike? Okay discussion? We strike? We get attacked physically and online with groups we cannot help but be drown out by

[intergalplan]

Oh god, sorry, I didn't mean to woe-is-me programmers to some kind of perfect equivalence with $35-40k-and-bennies-if-we're-lucky/unionized blue collar folks. I do think in terms of power dynamics most tech workers are much closer to that than to the "professional class" (doctors, lawyers, professors sort-of-but-less-so-these-days) or Fussellian upper-middle that they wish they were. $80-175k doesn't break them out of the tier of income where they're burning much of their money competing with the other working-class stiffs for e.g. housing, and (very relatedly) education for their kids. It's more comfortable, yes, and it'd be crazy to complain about it compared to the alternative, but it's also much more similar than it is different, as far as ability to tell a manager "no".

My intent was just to highlight the above: that most people employed in "tech" would perform a very similar calculation to what any other blue collar worker would, and would end up at the same conclusion of cowing to management. The market's better, sure, but if you're not part of the Tech Worker Aristocracy, and especially if you have a family, you're gonna ask "how high" when the boss says "jump", just like any other poor blue-collar bastard. The top-level comments you were wondering about aren't representative of most of the tech-work world (same as much of the perspective, or at least the apparent perspective, of this site isn't)

[marakv2]

You may have a (rather long winded :-p) point there, but a white collar worker has a lot more options than a blue collar.

Easier to replace a forklift driver than a coder.

But don't let that make you think, that I don't realise it's also difficult for a white collar. I've been there. I wish I had stayed. I just ask that when. You guys are feeling that pressure, to spare a though as to what tools and such you can do to help us down here.

[ShroudedNight]

I believe you're mostly in vociferous agreement. If anything I read GPs posts as a warning that we (software developers) do ourselves a disservice pretending to be superior to other forms of labour.

[rkangel]

The big advantage that tech workers have is that the supply/demand relationship is more in favour of the workers than the company. In most cases if you end up not having a job for some reason, you would expect to be able to find an at least passable one fairly quickly. This means that we always have the fallback option of quitting if we're not happy. yThat then limits (to some extent) how shitty our employers can be to us and expect to continue to function.

The other side of the coin is the much larger group of people who struggle to find any job that will pay the bills. If they can get one it's a dice roll whether their boss treats them with some decency or not. They can't "quit if it's shit" because they might not be able to find another job and they risk starving or getting evicted.

[benhurmarcel]

For blue collars this is even more clear-cut. You're clearly paid for what you physically produce during your work time. What you produce at home is yours.

If you're a blue collar I don't think any employer would claim ownership of the DIY stuff you produce in your garage.