[heavyset_go]

> When I hear folks complain about the pains of working from home, what I often hear are their stories about how they were needlessly disruptive to their coworkers.

What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic. That people have to work and babysit their kids during school. That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home workspace isn't adequate enough to get work done.

Before the pandemic, I would regularly rotate venues for where I got my work done. I'd go to different coffee shops and libraries. If I got bored of those places, I'd make it a point to go into different venues in different neighborhoods. When it was nice and warm out, I'd get work done in beach towns and enjoy the sea breeze. Several times a year, I'd book a hotel or short-term rental and work from a completely different city. At one point I rented a co-working space.

During the pandemic, most of those places are closed. I can't travel, and I don't want to. If I want to enjoy the sea breeze, I better have enough battery life and reception to get my work done in a park. Yet I'm lucky in that I'm not forced to share my personal work space at home with others, and I'm not forced to be a babysitter on top of the job I'm paid to do.

[908B64B197]

Quarantine work from home isn't work from home.

https://www.hanselman.com/blog/quarantine-work-is-not-remote...

[heavyset_go]

I agree.

[nucleardog]

I'd add to the list "things that could be fixed if this turns out to not be temporary".

If the only place you have to set up your workspace is your kitchen table then yeah, that sucks hard. But most people I know living in tiny bachelor suites and stuff where this becomes necessary are doing so because that was what they could get/afford a reasonable distance from the office.

If your WFH transitions to permanent, then you can solve this. You don't need that downtown suite anymore. If enough people transition to WFH to take the pressure off of the downtown rental market, then even if you _want_ to stay downtown chances are you can get more space pretty cheaply.

If you don't have a proper desk, enough monitors, a good chair, or other equipment... That's basically a one time cost if you transition to WFH. Bug your employer to pay for it or let you take home some of the now unused office equipment. I know for me I've saved over $15k in the past year not having to go downtown. I can buy a new Herman Miller chair basically every month and throw the old one in the trash and still be breaking even.

[whitexn--g28h]

Living in the city allows me to go to restaurants, drink as much as I like, and safely walk back home. I can go to a concert and not have to worry if I’ll miss the last train. I can reduce my carbon footprint by driving less. Moving everyone out of the cities and into the suburbs would be an environmental disaster.

[sokoloff]

The suburbs and rural areas are going to boom (in relative terms) if remote working becomes normalized in even 30% of the tech workforce.

[nucleardog]

Yep, so stay downtown! Chances are rents are going to go down as a bunch of people empty out, so you can likely pick up some more space and/or access to a co-working space post-COVID pretty cheaply.

People like me in the city proper because I have to commute to downtown, but otherwise have no desire to be in the city will move further out to one of the substantially sized suburbs that meet all my needs besides work and never come back.

People downtown that want to be nearby and have access, but don't necessarily feel the need for living upstairs from their favourite bar will take my place, and on and on.

Instead of density having to concentrate in a few small few areas, it can disperse and even out and I find it hard to not see that as being to pretty much everyone's benefit.

[HWR_14]

>What I hear are complaints about the consequences of the pandemic

How so (rhetorically asked)?

> That both they and their partner are forced to share a workspace. That they miss changes of scenery, or that their home workspace isn't adequate enough to get work done.

These all seem like problems that arise from WFH. Especially two people working from home. Inadequate workspace and isolation at home.

> Before the pandemic, I would regularly rotate venues for where I got my work done. I'd go to different coffee shops and libraries.

Yeah, if you can work from a coworking space (either formal or informal) that solves quite a few of those problems. That's different. Although I don't want to subsidize my employer's office rent, but I'm happy to direct their funds to a location I prefer.

The other point I note is that you work on a laptop. You talk about taking it with you and other clues. How do you work on a small screen, touchpad, and a laptop keyboard. I'm honestly curious, because I've tried it many times and there must be some tricks I need to start employing. The lack of dual screens alone seems like it would kill productivity. (And sea air seems like it would kill your electronics.)

[heavyset_go]

> These all seem like problems that arise from WFH. Especially two people working from home. Inadequate workspace and isolation at home.

WFH doesn't mean you're stuck at home. I'm someone who likes WFH but doesn't like working from my home. This is why, in pre-pandemic times, I'd purposely work from different locations of my choosing.

The pandemic necessitates that WFM means working from your home and only your home, and that isn't always ideal.

> Although I don't want to subsidize my employer's office rent, but I'm happy to direct their funds to a location I prefer.

Before the pandemic, many of the employers I worked with didn't have a problem with paying for coworking spaces.

> How do you work on a small screen, touchpad, and a laptop keyboard. I'm honestly curious, because I've tried it many times and there must be some tricks I need to start employing.

Beyond using a vertical mouse and offloading a lot of compute to my home and cloud clusters, I don't have any good advice to give, unfortunately. I've been using laptops for decades and they're just my preferred way to work.

> (And sea air seems like it would kill your electronics.)

As long as it isn't humid out, you're good. What it really kills are cars that are parked outside. They'll begin to rust after a year or two, brakes will need to be replaced sooner, etc.

[HWR_14]

> WFH doesn't mean you're stuck at home.

It does if you're addicted to dual-monitors and other non-mobile setups. Maybe that, more than kids, is the discriminator between people who love WFH and those who cannot stand it.

> Beyond using a vertical mouse

I just bought a new mouse near the beginning of the pandemic. I looked at vertical mice, but ended up getting a more standard one with a nicely molded in-hand shape. I suppose if I had been in a store I would have tried it. Thanks for reminding me I wanted to check one out in person.