[thelean12]

Your description of ideal working conditions sounds so robotic to me. Schedule everything! No off the cuff conversations! Screw the human desire for socializing, we've got shit to do!

Right now my team is comprised of no one that I've met in person. I feel absolutely no connection to them and feel so incredibly disconnected from my work. Like I've been playing the same video game for 8 hours a day for a year and nothing I'm doing is real.

I'm quite scared of hybrid or full remote solutions for my company. I don't want to switch companies right now but if they go full or hybrid WFH I might have to, just to keep my sanity.

[dleslie]

We actively talk over slack. There's a #random channel, a #stonks channel, et al. There's plenty of banter.

But _anyone_ can mute those and focus. I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk.

[endymi0n]

We also _write_ actively over Slack. I write into my text editor as well, I don't feel a difference. I'm staring at the same freaking screen all day, interfacing with individuals that couldn't feel more irreplaceable. Maybe they're advanced ML text and video synthesis models, I don't know.

Every day feels the same, like three weeks old chewing gum. Work is effective and incredibly empty. I don't know what we're working on. I don't care what we're working on.

The (forced) WFH revolution seems to really be a field day for introverts, nomads, misantropists and sociopaths. I'm happy for them, but I couldn't be much unhappier myself than right now.

If I had the qualifications and could afford it, I'd rather quit and work as a hospital assistant with real humans than stay one day longer in homeoffice.

[baryphonic]

Have you considered going to a coworking space? I have a feeling that if you need the human interaction, getting it from a coworking space may fill the void. My guess is that you'll find you don't really need to be that socially in tune with your coworkers, as long as you're getting some human interaction elsewhere.

[slavapestov]

I prefer socializing with my family and friends over my coworkers. I don't like commuting to an office. I hate fluorescent lights and windows I cannot open for fresh air. If that makes me an introvert/nomad/misanthropist/sociopath, then so be it.

[dleslie]

It's sort of telling that you lump introverts, nomads, misanthropists and sociopaths together.

[endymi0n]

Telling about what? I was enumerating groups of people who don't particularly value being around other people. Maybe I'm wrong with sociopaths in that regard though, as they might actually enjoy that for all the wrong reasons.

I realize how this categorization can be seen as disingenious though. Sorry for that, I didn't mean to be — I'm just completely burned out.

If anything, it gives me a little bit better of an impression of (the exact opposite of?) what introverts must probably suffer through in an office environment full of extroverts like me.

[dleslie]

It's telling about your feelings and perspective of people who are happy with the current situation.

Your problem isn't working from home, it's that you're only at home and lacking normal human interaction. Normally, if you were working from home you would be able to spend time with other people after work.

[thelean12]

> I _cannot_ mute a coworker talking loudly next to my desk.

Maybe my team was more respectful. Any prolonged conversation can and was taken to a conference room or common area.

I also wear noise canceling headphones most of the day, and find the general muted drone of office noises nice. People listen to recorded audio of cafes and stuff, it's basically the same for me.

But to be clear: I'm not saying everyone should have the same preferences as me. I'm just letting my voice and concerns be heard, since I've heard plenty of people go on about how they think WFH/remote work is better.

[solosoyokaze]

It's funny that you described wfh as "robotic" yet you literally have to use robot assisted noise cancellation in your office. I don't mean that to be snarky, just an observation.

I find wfh much more "human" as I can be around friends and family, go for walks, eat healthier... Probably the biggest gain is not having a boss watch me all day. That seems superbly unnatural to me.

[dleslie]

Noise cancelling isn't enough. If I know someone is discussing topics important to my deliverables then I have to pay attention.

[thelean12]

I'm not sure how that's different than someone sending a direct message to someone in a chat. Except now you'd definitely have no idea if someone was discussing something important and you were missing it.

[dleslie]

With vocal interaction people expect an immediate response. With text interaction they are willing to tolerate a delay.

[nkrisc]

Different strokes for different folks, but I work to make money, not friends. If I don’t need the money I wouldn’t be there. I prefer to socialize outside of work.

I do my job, my coworkers do their job, and then we can close our laptops at the end of the day and engage with our lives and not think about each other.

[whateveracct]

I love not having a connection to my coworkers personally. I have some connection to the handful of people I directly collaborate with (like people who work on the same codebase), but that's it. And those interactions are far from daily, but enough that I have casual rapport. Nothing meaningful or personal required, but still a good working relationship.

[thelean12]

I spend ~35% of my weekly waking hours with my coworkers. Despite my objection, I completely understand people who want WFH/remote. But I absolutely don't understand people with your sentiment.

[whateveracct]

I spend my waking hours with people too, if that helps explain the sentiment.

I'm definitely full & happy on the "people I have meaningful relationships with" front without coworkers adding on.

Spending 1/3 of my waking adult life with people who happen to have the same employer as me just isn't appealing. It's so easy to find people I have more in common with.

[gregmac]

Curious:

Do you do regular video calls? Do you ever discuss anything aside from work? Even during a "work" discussion, do people make jokes, laugh, etc?

Do you have chat (slack) channels, and are they active? Does anyone ever spontaneously post something like "hey, anyone feel like talking about x that I'm trying to sort out?" Is chat pure business or do people ever discuss anything else?

These are all kind of leading questions, but the things that I think are key to making it work.

[thelean12]

Sure, we have all that. And maybe I'm just wired differently. I haven't made any real connections or friendships with my virtual coworkers over the past year. In the past when I joined a new IRL team, I'd have some budding friendships after a few team lunches.

Maybe it's because there are hardly any actual real personal bonding moments. For example, lunch with 10 talking heads on a VC is insane to me since you can't have more than one conversation at once, and any conversation you have has to be with the entire group. You can't pick up on something someone said, realize someone else has the same interest as you and go sit next to them and talk it out. You have to have the 1:1 conversation in front of the whole group, or leave the group.

That's just one example of why it seems so difficult to make real, genuine friendships at work now.

[exotree]

What is disconcerting about hybrid? This seems to be the solution that strikes a good balance between your needs and the needs of your other coworkers who probably appreciate the increased flexibility.

[dleslie]

Have you ever tried to have a party at two locations?

It doesn't work.

[exotree]

That’s... not at all the same concept. There are a lot of companies pre-pandemic that had hybrid offices. Many global companies have had zoom rooms and other teleconferencing solutions for years.

[heavyset_go]

Using this logic, employers' offices and branches in other cities shouldn't work either, but they do.

Remote and hybrid companies also show that they work, too.

[dleslie]

Separate offices tend to have separate clients and/or separate products.