[montecarl]

You may not have meant it this way, but "College should be for academically gifted high school graduates" is not what I would have in mind for who should attend college. I think college should be for those who want to learn.

For example, I had very poor grades in high school (would not have been described as academically gifted) and used state funds to go to undergrad to study science. Ended up just being a late bloomer, graduated summa cum laude with a degree in chemistry and went on to get a PhD in theoretical chemistry. Higher education shouldn't be restricted to just students who appear gifted, but should be available to anyone who wants to put in the work.

I agree that college should not be a requirement for good entry-level jobs, however, I don't think that college admission in general (there will always be elite private institutions) should be heavily restricted based on my personal experience.

Edit due to sibling comment: I did poorly on the math placement test for college as well and had to take remedial math courses. I ended up minoring in math and taking some graduate level courses in numerical analysis during undergrad. So the idea that colleges shouldn't have remedial classes is ridiculous.

[honkycat]

No, montecarl, higher education should only be for kids who get the most obedience points in child jail.

Please ignore the vast gulf of quality between child jails, if they were gifted students they would have risen to the top anyway.

[slibhb]

If there's some way to figure out "those who are willing and able to learn" better than "those who excelled in high school," then fine, use that.

But it's clear to me that the current system is not for "those who want to learn". College is just what you do after high school because an undergraduate degree is a requirement for some bizarre reason.

[Kevin_S]

Just to extend your point, some of my stats:

3.0 high school GPA 3.0 undergraduate GPA

Now in year 3 of a PhD program. I wasn't even considered academically gifted in undergrad! Yet I think I am a pretty good researcher.

[disgruntledphd2]

I finished at near the bottom of my undergrad. Got a PhD and a job that uses those skills, which puts me in the top 10% of graduates in my field.

So yeah, study and research are very different.

[whimsicalism]

What the hell are you all getting PhDs in where it is a doable path if you are near the bottom of your undergrad?

I've explored a PhD in CS, and reading what people write I've gotten the impression that it is extremely difficult to get into programs.

[disgruntledphd2]

Well, I did by dint of being incredibly lazy throughout my undergrad, but clearly smart (engaging with the material, but not doing enough work).

I was pretty lazy in my UG, and (for the first time in my life) competing against people just as smart as me. So I did pretty badly.

I did demonstrate strong research aptitude in my project, as well as a bunch of other classes. I kinda skipped a bunch of stuff in second year, and second year was 33% of the final grade, so I did pretty crap.

To be fair, I came to the department with a proposal, found my own supervisors and got my own funding (through a government scholarship), so I didn't really cost them much.

[bumby]

It can be doable if you deliberately select jobs that can demonstrate research aptitude as a way of getting into a PhD program. In my case, it’s also awfully helpful if you have an employer willing to foot the bill, as it means you won’t have to scrap and compete for limited funding positions.

[Kevin_S]

Sorry late reply, but I am in accounting.