[chromatic]

I just know second-hand that something broke the trust between the Perl 6 and Parrot developers around the first Rakudo Star release. And that strengthened the notion that another backend for Perl 6 was needed.

If I recall correctly, that's about the time Jonathan started complaining that the Parrot object model didn't work very well for P6 and wrote his own for PCT, which is still weird to me because he was the primary implementer of the Parrot object model in Parrot. (I don't remember the dates, but he also wrote an object model in C# and another in Java, which you mentioned in another comment.)

I tried for a long time to migrate the PCT object model back into Parrot, but both Jonathan and Patrick told me repeatedly it wasn't a priority, so I stopped offering.

I'm not the only person who had this experience; I remember someone else having a similar experience with Unicode support.

OOC, which official hagiography are you referring to?

The one that says "Parrot dumped P6, so the P6 developers had no choice but to write their own VM".

I was there. That's not true at all.

[microtherion]

As a further clarification of my earlier remarks, when I was talking about Parrot developers not being interested in Perl 6 at all, I was not referring to your era, but to considerably earlier times: https://www.sidhe.org/oldblog/archives/000435.html

Different eras with different dysfunctions, and different people involved, but for some reason, always personality clashes.

[chromatic]

That was my era too, but it's definitely true that Dan lost interest in P6 well before he stepped down, and Leo never seemed to have a specific interest in P6.

[lizmat]

> The one that says "Parrot dumped P6, so the P6 developers had no choice but to write their own VM".

I don't think that I ever implied that. To me, in one sentence, it's more like "Parrot and Perl 6 diverged, so that Parrot was no longer a good fit for Perl 6, so the Perl 6 developers had no choice but to write their own VM"

[chromatic]

Parrot and Perl 6 diverged

To me this reads like the "mistakes were made" phrasing used when someone wants to be technically accurate but not say anything meaningful.

Regardless of whatever Raku developers and advocates say, I, as a lead developer of Parrot, went out of my way to make it work better for P6. Patrick asked me not to do certain things and so I didn't do those things.

Maybe that was my mistake.

But it's categorically untrue that Parrot wanted to get rid of P6 or considered P6 an afterthought or wasn't willing and able to be receptive to P6's needs, and I'm disappointed that that untruth continues to persist.

[lizmat]

Regardless of whatever Raku developers and advocates say, I, as a lead developer of Parrot, went out of my way to make it work better for P6.

May I point out that basically nobody of the then Perl 6 team (except Jonathan) is currently involved in the development of Raku? So please don't transfer your mistrust to these people: they have no beef in this.

But it's categorically untrue that Parrot wanted to get rid of P6 or considered P6 an afterthought or wasn't willing and able to be receptive to P6's needs, and I'm disappointed that that untruth continues to persist.

Well, maybe I don't have anything meaningful to say about this, as I have no firsthand experience in the matter. So the only thing I can do in this case, is trying to be technically correct.

I believe you had the best intentions towards Parrot and towards Perl 6 (which for some reason you keep mentioning as P6 in your replies). But, for whatever reason, it did not work out. We can keep discussing the past in that respect, but I'd rather work on the future instead.

If you really want to get the history straight, I'd suggest to write a book about it, similar to http://friendlyorangeglow.com which taught me a lot about the people developing the system I grew up with. Good and bad.