[ruph123]

I used 1Password for a long time. When they shifted to the SaaS model I left angrily. Over time I tried out several other programs such as Enpass (came close to the original 1pw), keepass varieties, Bitwarden but found myself back at 1Password this year. One big thing, which funny enough is another dark pattern I guess, is the family account feature. I allows me to take family members on and we can share certain passwords and I think even help recover an account. This is also important because 1PW is the most easy to use password manager and my mom was really struggling with Enpass.

[npunt]

A new feature that adds value is not a 'dark pattern'. Lets not be dramatic.

Even moving from one-time to subscription isn't a 'dark pattern', its a business model move to shift to recurring revenue, which we know is something that businesses need to keep the lights on. You can debate the merits of it, but it's not a dark pattern in and of itself. HOW they execute that might be, but the change itself isn't. You just have a personal preference to not want to pay for it in a particular way.

[ruph123]

> A new feature that adds value is not a 'dark pattern'. Lets not be dramatic.

Family plans are in my eyes. They log users more into the platform and makes it very difficult to switch. If you want to move away from Spotify, you now have to convince enough of the others to make it feasible.

> Even moving from one-time to subscription isn't a 'dark pattern'

I did not claim that it was one. I also was not even mad about recurring payments, to me the problematic change was that the data was now hosted on some other machine owned by the company who is producing the software (e.g. in theory single point of entry).

[npunt]

I'm trying to charitably understand what you're advocating for but it sounds like you're arguing that getting multiple people to use any app is criteria for dark pattern because once they do start using that app, to switch you have to convince them as a group. So.. should everyone use different apps? Or is a protocol the solution?

As far as where data is stored, which sounds a bit like a different argument, I guess what you're advocating for is some kind of peer-to-peer sync solution across family member devices that would work anywhere. That's cool but I think it may a lot of technical complexity vs a cloud solution, and it still doesn't change the fact that you still have the issue above about switching as a group.

It might be worth reviewing what dark pattern actually means - UI tricks to get people to do things they don't want to do. If people like a product enough that they convince others to use it as well, that's ... a good product? I get the data storage concern though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_pattern

[ruph123]

I think you are interpreting too much into my side comment of “its a dark pattern I guess”. Hereby I retract this part of my statement.

[npunt]

Ah fair enough, I was probably being extra HN nitpicky myself. Cheers