[tgsovlerkhgsel]

In this specific case, I'm really glad they're exercising their power, because they seem to be doing it in the best possible way, and have forced governments to do the right, privacy-preserving thing.

And I think having this power is OK - nobody should be forced to help the government implement something unethical. There may be scenarios where this goes horribly wrong, but the contact tracing framework is a case where it went perfectly right.

Yes, the QR-checkin feature is something where an exception could make sense, but given what it would pave the way for, I'm glad they keep the rules strict.

[llimos]

> nobody should be forced to help the government implement something unethical

Nobody is forced to install the app at all (at least in the UK's case).

And if they do, they're not forced to share their location anyway.

On the other hand, anyone who has an Android phone is forced to share tons of data with Google. And the cost of not having one is much higher than the cost of not having the government's app.

[RossM]

> Nobody is forced to install the app at all (at least in the UK's case).

Unfortunately, that's not quite right. Citing the latest rules:

> The rules on what you need to do when a group enters your venue have changed. You must ask every customer or visitor to scan the NHS QR code using their NHS COVID-19 app, or provide their name and contact details, not just a lead member of the group. [0]

[0] https://www.gov.uk/guidance/maintaining-records-of-staff-cus...

Delving into the rules, it appears this applies to all sit-in venues, while takeaway customers are exempt. A paper-based system should be available, if you trust the business to handle your data responsibly (or forge fake data if not).

This morning at a cafe I was asked to scan the QR code "or we can't serve you" for a takeaway order. Clearly some misunderstanding, and I didn't press about a paper-based list as I hadn't read the details myself. Hopefully it's an isolated incident, but it wouldn't surprise me if there was some simplified comms (/FUD) about "just get customers to scan the code".

[cassianoleal]

> or provide their name and contact details

There are 2 alternatives to installing the app:

- providing your details; or - not entering the venue.

Seems correct that nobody is forced to install the app.

[makomk]

Unfortunately, Google and Apple have effectively made it impossible to use the paper-based details in order to contact people and tell them to self-isolate if someone who used the app to check in tests positive by blocking this.

[tgsovlerkhgsel]

I'm talking about tech companies being forced to help governments distribute large scale mass surveillance tools.