[codq]

Yep.

A blueberry muffin is around 424 calories. It takes about 45 minutes to burn that many calories jogging.

Compare that to how many minutes it takes to simply not eat that muffin.

A lot of people are afraid of the feeling of ‘hunger’; I find the sensation of hunger is actually a motivating one. I try to fast around 16 hours a day (eating window 12pm-8pm) and really think it keeps my head clear and helps me work, especially in the morning.

[vladvasiliu]

Based on my personal experience, I think there are two feelings which are associated with "hunger".

The first one seems to be triggered by eating relatively-high carb and calorie-dense foods. Say Snickers bars. This feels like a sudden loss of energy and a want to eat something. What's interesting is that the feeling seems more like a craving for something "fast and sweet", like another chocolate bar. I specifically don't feel like eating a "regular" meal. It also seems very intrusive mentally. I can't think about anything else except going looking for that next treat.

Then there's what I'd say is "actual hunger", which to me feels very, very different from the first. It's usual not accompanied by a lethargic feeling, and like the parent said, there seems to be some kind of motivation and (what at least looks like) increased mental acuity associated with it. This seems to go away after 30 minutes to an hour, and usually only comes after having fasted for a while and / or having exercised. When I get this kind of hunger, I usually don't even consider chocolate bars or similar as "food". I usually think about having a fairly substantial meal, usually some kind of vegetables, protein and fat. Like butter, chicken / steak, some broccoli or other salad, etc.

I've found that by reducing sugar consumption -- not to 0, I've never gone on a zero-carb diet -- especially in calorie-dense foods such as industrial "treats", the first kind of hunger rarely, if ever, shows up. And I actually rarely, if ever, feel like eating those things. Whereas some 10 years ago, when I'd eat a lot of Snickers bars (I used to really love those), the feeling would show up multiple times a day and would be a real bother mentally. My energy levels also seem much more stable throughout the day now.

[mft_]

While there are several different physiological effects that contribute to what we call 'hunger', what I suspect you are describing is mostly related to different blood sugar profiles.

When you eat foods which are simple-carb based (i.e. sugars, or other small, easily-digestible carbs) your body can very quickly and easily utilise them, resulting in a fairly rapid spike of blood sugar. Importantly, because they're easily-digestible, their sugar will be released over a short period of time. In response to the sugar spike, your body will release insulin and drive the sugar out of your blood stream, but because the flow of new sugars from your gut has slowed or ceased, this can result in quite a low blood sugar state. When you hit this state, you not only feel very hungry, but also crave foods which will give you quickly-available blood sugar, to resolve the situation quickly. One other point is that while your body has the ability to release sugar (or other substances which similarly give you energy) from stored reserves, these processes are fairly slow - so don't really respond quickly enough to account for this sort of sudden low sugar state.

In contrast, if you eat a more balanced diet (with complex rather than simple carbs, some protein, some fat, more fibre) you change both parts of the previous effect: the spike of sugar into your blood stream is less pronounced, because the food you've eaten is less suited to provide it, and also the release of sugars occurs over a longer period. So you don't get the sugar spike, or the big hit of insulin in response, or the low afterwards which makes you crave fast sugars. And also, because this is all slower, thanks to eating foods which provide a slower release of nutrition, your body's systems have an opportunity to work alongside your food, and as (for example) the release of nutrition from your gut slows, offer nutrition from your body's stores to sustain you for longer.

[klodolph]

That's an interesting division, because I also think of "first" and "second" hunger, but differently.

What you describe as "actual hunger" is what I think of as "first hunger", which is just triggered by mealtime, and goes away after 30 minutes to an hour as you describe.

If you ignore that sensation of hunger for about a day, you start to feel a deeper sensation of hunger which doesn't go away, it just keeps growing.

[dTal]

If I may be permitted to indulge in some "just so story" pontificating:

Hunger type 1: "Gathering". There's berries out there, dammit! Stop wasting your time and eat em before the birds do.

Hunger type 2: "Hunting". It's time. Sharpen your spear. Focus. Run. And if you catch nothing, we'll try again tomorrow.

[vladvasiliu]

While I get your point, I find it somewhat amusing that berries — and whole fruit generally — will actually not trigger this kind of reaction.

And if you think about it, in kinda makes sense.

A "large" banana has 121 calories for 136 grams [0].

A Snickers bar has 245 calories for 48 grams [1].

I think this kind of difference messes up the body's perception. Even honey has less calories than a Snickers bar [2]. I, for one, can't eat too much honey without feeling like I've had enough. But I can easily eat two Snickers bars one after the other.

Maybe we just haven't evolved to handle such a high concentration of calories being so readily absorbed from so little food.

This could explain another commenter's point: "we shouldn't have to count calories, the body should be able to handle that on its own".

Well, I suppose it does, but it handles that based on some assumptions which clearly don't hold in some situations. Of course, it's also not easy to "will" yourself into doing this. Suppose you eat 9 Snickers bars a day, which is more than the standard 2000 calories for a male. I'm pretty sure someone eating that would still feel hungry all day long.

---

[0] Calories in a banana: https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/bananas-calories-carbs#...

[1] Calories in Snickers bar: https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/single-bar-choco...

[3] Calories in honey: https://www.caloriescalc.com/honey/

[00vareladavid]

It is crazy how our modern culture normalizes eating all the time. Our bodies were not designed to process an endless stream of calories. Our whole relationship with hunger is out of whack.

I remember eating a protein bar while backpacking after being fatigued and heavily calorie restricted for a few days. While eating, I had a very acute sense of how precious the blessing of food was. I recognized how this thing we constantly take for granted saved me from a pretty miserable existence.

I agree with the feeling of working while fasted. I find that I am not as productive after I break my fast for the day.

[dvt]

> I try to fast around 16 hours a day (eating window 12pm-8pm)

I've been doing intermittent fasting for ~5 years now, and I don't even feel the hunger anymore. The only time I feel it is when I aggressively work out (running ~2 miles in the morning + lifting ~45 mins in the afternoon 5 days a week) and if I'm on a caloric deficit (~1750kcal). I also notice I get that hungry feeling particularly if my macros shift away from carbs (which they usually do when cutting weight). The human body is an incredible machine.

[xupybd]

Have you tried upping your fat when you are cutting? I find that my hunger tends to be controlled mainly by my fat intake.

[dvt]

I haven't, but maybe I'll give it a try! Unfortunately, there's not that many fatty foods I actually enjoy eating. A lot of people like avocados but I can't stand them, for instance. Same story with peanut butter.