[thaumasiotes]

> On the one hand, it is ridiculous that one of the main metrics used in admissions is a glorified IQ test. On the other hand, it is ridiculous that we don't have a single commonly used standardized-exam that evaluates proficiency and expertise in the core curriculum.

You don't like the use of an IQ test in school admissions, and you want to establish an IQ test instead?

[totalZero]

I agree with your implicit point, but GP is likely emphasizing the delineation between measuring aptitude and measuring proficiency.

[sudosysgen]

Standardized national exams on proficiency in math, languages, science, etc... are very different from IQ tests and only somewhat correlated with IQ, being instead much more strongly correlated with consciensciousness, and generally how good of a student you are and will be.

[whack]

It is shocking that the above comment is being downvoted, but not the comment it is responding to. Proficiency exams in specific subjects like Math/Biology/History/Literature etc are most certainly not IQ tests. Just because something rewards intelligence to some extent, doesn't make it an IQ test. Calling the GCSE History exam an IQ test would be like calling the YC application process an IQ test.

[exolymph]

Conscientiousness itself correlates with IQ.

[sudosysgen]

Yes? And? General grades still correlate more strongly with consciensciousness than IQ.

And consciensciousness is actually negatively correlated with IQ.

[thaumasiotes]

Grades show a strong influence from conscientiousness, but exam scores do not.

> And consciensciousness is actually negatively correlated with IQ.

In the same way that SAT math scores are negatively correlated with SAT verbal scores, which is to say only in thresholded samples.

https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.paid.2014.06.014

[sudosysgen]

Which exam scores are we talking about? Grades themselves are generally by preponderance the result of exams.

In non-thresholded samples there is still a small negative correlation, or no correlation at all. If you could show me a study thay shows big, positive correlations between intelligence and consciensciousness without thresholding I'd be interested.

[thaumasiotes]

This is completely untrue.

[sudosysgen]

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10212-011-0099-9

Personality traits are much more strongly correlated with academic aptitude than IQ is. If you disagree, you should provide a source.

[thaumasiotes]

What are you trying to illustrate with your link? There is no standardized national exam among the measures.

[sudosysgen]

Standardized national exams are normally very highly correlated to academic ability as represented by grades by the same teacher. Actually, where I live, this is essentially the explicit goal of the national exams - they then generate a score that normalizes the difficulty of each teacher and use it both for selection and to evaluate the accuracy of the exam and update it next year.

The data from which I learnt this isn't public AFAIK, but I'm sure similar studies exist for other countries.

[thaumasiotes]

The published literature doesn't support your claims, but that's OK because you have private data which you find more palatable? This is a fun combination with your posture of

> If you disagree, you should provide a source.