[asdff]

Arguably were are already there. Every car on the market gets to the speed limit quick enough and gets about the same MPG, so therefore cars are already in this nike shoe to balenciaga state, since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their cars dangerously on public roads).

I think in this light you will have to look and see how luxury cars differentiate, even though a Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and v6 Honda Accord all go very fast today. Luxury brands have fit and finish that isn't found on the similarly speedy v6 Honda accord. If Tesla would like to remain competitive in their price bracket, they will have to start offering an interior and overall fit and finish worthy of standing among other $30k-$40k cars on the market today. IMO from my own personal experiences with Teslas, some base model cars from other manufacturers on the market have less rattly and cheap feeling interiors, and a giant iPad is a poor (distracting) crutch.

[jabo]

I’m glad I’m not the only who felt that the interiors in a Tesla were cheap feeling. I used to be in the camp of “I want to buy a Tesla one day”, but a test drive two years ago burst my bubble. For the price tag, I was expecting a little bit more quality of interiors than what felt like rickety plasticy parts put together.

There were some parts like the window buttons that looked of higher quality, and it turns out, those were manufactured by Mercedes.

[DennisP]

Let's not overlook Tesla's acceleration, range, and Supercharger network. Other makers will catch up eventually but for now, those factors make a lot of buyers overlook fit and finish.

[asdff]

Tesla isn't competing against an electric car, though, it's competing against the upper middle class consumer's gas car. Against this car, probably a lexus or 3 series thereabouts, the Tesla is not a good bargain unless you are interested in having an electric car for the sake of that alone.

It being some green choice itself is dubious, considering how much gas and coal is still used in the electric grid and how this car still produces particulate pollution from brake and tire dust, and the fact that you've just brought multiple tons of rare earth materials from around the world together to do the same job the $2000 used corolla that already exists locally at your neighborhood used car lot does, or even a moped for some, only with a higher perceived social standing. The acceleration is on par with the rest of it's class, the range is decent, and the supercharger network is good but still much less convenient than filling up at a gas station, and there's been times on my travels where even the distance between gas stations was dangerously few and far in between.

Imo the worse problem for the car wasn't that we powered it with gas, it was that we insisted on using a vehicle weighing 3000lbs to move our 200lb selves. It doesn't matter how green your energy source is when only 6% of it is used to actually move you, and there are externalities just from the weight alone (the brakes and tires required to stop 3200lbs vs 200lbs e.g. on a bicycle and their associated pollution, the cost to the earth forging these 3000lbs of metal).

[decafninja]

I agree with this. Most people looking at say, a Model 3, are not cross shopping it vs. say, a Chevy Bolt or Nissan Leaf. Seems like they are more cross shopping vs. a BMW 3 series or Benz C class.

[DennisP]

Yes but my point was, the range/recharging situation is a differentiator from other electrics for now, and reasonably practical, while acceleration far exceeds most gasoline cars in its price range.

From a quick google, the fastest BMW 3-series is the 330i, at 5.3 seconds 0-60. The M240i xDrive does 4.2 seconds. For a few thousand more, the Model 3 Performance does 3.1.

Tesla's instant response is another fun advantage, and reviews have been very positive on Model 3 handling. The bottom line is, it's a fun car and people like it. It's not just virtue/status signaling and environmentalism.

[sliken]

I was shopping around for the m235i, 330i, x1, x2 and similar vehicles. Was rather disappointed about the configuration options, terrible headlights (worse than a prius), unless you pay for the premium. Zillions of options that really should be standard, things like ski pass thru and folding seats, stock radio that was pretty disappointing, and the nav system/idrive was pretty disappointing, much like a 10+ year old smart phone.

The Tesla options were a pleasure, lr, awd, or performance, interior color, exterior color, size of the wheels, and fsd or not.

Saw quite a few horror stories about the "wonder 4 cylinder", plastic timing chain gears, issues with the high pressure fuel pump, and then BMW halved their CPO warranty. One of the bmw forums mentioned a just out of warranty engine check light, going to the dealer, getting the all clear, having the engine sieze the next day, and a $20k bill. Sure it's just a single story, the next day there were 20 pages of similar stories. I had done the research to buy one of the "good" BMWs (the 6 cyclinder, no HFP issues, and no plastic timing chain gears). But then the model 3P came out, drove quite nicely, nice speech recognition, nice nav, and acceleration that puts a smile on my face every damn time.

[decafninja]

Completely agree with that too.

Not to nitpick, but the fastest non-M 3 series is the M340, which has been tested to 3.8s 0-60 and can probably be leased for about the same as a Model 3 Performance. Disclaimer: it's my current daily driver.

The M3 is the more interesting comparison, and Elon specifically had the older one in his crosshairs vs. the Model 3 Performance trim. Based on various Youtube videos, the pre 2021 Model 3P seems to beat or match most of its competitors in various metrics at a significantly lower price. Would be interesting how the post 2021 Model 3P compares against the new hog-nosed BMW M3 and the upcoming 4cyl+electricmotor C63 AMG.

I'm actually scheduled to test drive a Model 3 this weekend so I'm curious how it will feel vs. the M340. I've never driven an EV before.

[philg_jr]

Be prepared to be impressed. I got myself into a '21 Model 3 LR and the acceleration puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. And this is from someone with a very heavily modded 4-cyl turbo car with a medium frame turbo and 20psi. 340 ft-lb is nothing to scoff at when it's on tap instantaneously. I really want to take a Model 3P for a test drive, I wish I knew someone.

And the Model 3 has been around for 4? years now? The fit and finish I'm guessing has improved greatly, but I really have no idea. I ordered and picked up mine without ever test driving one. I guess I put a lot of faith in it, but I love it. No regrets. Bring on the electrification of all vehicles. Can't wait for an electric pickup truck.

[DennisP]

Apparently a quick google is less reliable than direct experience :)

I'd be curious to see your impressions after your test drive.

[gcheong]

Has the playing field leveled between Tesla and all others in terms of an accessible and reliable charging network now? That's still the main reason I would buy a Tesla for anything other than a city commuter but I may be behind the times.

[thatfrenchguy]

It's better with ElectrifyAmerica in the US, not perfect yet. Give it one or two more years.

[sideshowb]

It's not at all true all mpg are the same, for starters petrol/diesel/hybrid/electric vary hugely in this respect.

[andrepd]

> since the actual added performance functionality you get in the porsche today is useless, dangerous, and illegal except on private tracks (and maybe 1% of owners will bring their cars to one of these, far more will drive their cars dangerously on public roads).

OT but I don't get why 400bhp cars with "race" suspensions are even road-legal. Why are cars not fitted with a speed limiter? Road accidents are a leading cause of death and injury, with 1,500,000 people killed annually (or a jumbo jet going down with 340 passengers every 2h). Yet we allow cars that dramatically increase risks and increase pollution (any car with over ~100bhp/ton really only uses the extra power by breaking the law). At the same time we spend billions in "manual" policing! Such inefficiency.

[npongratz]

I think if one were to dig into the statistics of road fatalities, they would probably find 400 HP race-suspended muscle cars are not a major mass murdering menace.

[andrepd]

Pedestrian and cyclist deaths are on the rise in developed countries, as cars are ever safer for the drivers and more dangerous for the fragile sacks of meat in the street walking about their day.