[baybal2]

> What will be the future differentiator in electric vehicles?

I'm afraid there will be none.

Hull shape, and the battery size is pretty much the only thing existing EVs differ from each other.

Mechanically, they are all very, very simple. Simpler than any IC car.

Compact wishbone suspension is used on pretty much every one of them, since all EVs are city cars, and you want as much space for batteries as possible, and as lower centre of mass as possible

And since all EVs are very heavy, you don't have much innovations in body design either, it just needs to be very strong, and very rigid to securely accommodate the battery pack.

This way the vision of "White Label, off the shelf cars" produced by some Foxconn like maker swallowing the market is very much real.

[lastofthemojito]

>Hull shape, and the battery size is pretty much the only thing existing EVs differ from each other.

That seems like a strange thing to say.

We see front-wheel-drive, rear-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive electric vehicles on the road today, driven by 1, 2 or 3 motors. We've seen designs (I don't think any of them are in production yet) with 4 motors - one for each wheel.

There's about an order of magnitude difference between the horsepower in a Renault Zoe and a top-of-the-line Tesla Model S.

Not all EVs use the same suspension either - Tesla's S and X use an air suspension, and Jaguar offers air suspension on the I-Pace as well.

I certainly agree that taking the ICE out of the vehicle takes away one of the big differentiators between car brands, but I think expecting there to be no differentiators between EVs seems pretty silly. There will always be cheaper, simpler models and more expensive, extravagant models. There will always be innovators trying new features, some of which will succeed and trickle down to other cars, and some of which will be expensive curiosities.

[baybal2]

> We see front-wheel-drive, rear-wheel-drive and all-wheel-drive electric vehicles on the road today, driven by 1, 2 or 3 motors. We've seen designs (I don't think any of them are in production yet) with 4 motors - one for each wheel.

This differentiation is superfluous with EVs, and I believe we will not see this living much longer.

There is not much differentiation besides linear cost/performance progression.

Motors? Suspension? Horsepower? All basically more money for bigger motor, hp, and performance.

[Sohcahtoa82]

> This differentiation is superfluous with EVs, and I believe we will not see this living much longer.

Am I understanding your statement correctly? Are you implying that FWD/RWD/AWD doesn't matter for an EV? Because from a handling and safety perspective, it matters just as much in an EV as it does in an ICE.

[baybal2]

Yes, EVs are predominantly city cars. Very heavy, and low-central centre of gravity.

Nobody will be racing them, otherwise the stability provided by weight should be very good.

However, I don't see a real reason for FWD electric cars other than those being retrofit models.

[Sohcahtoa82]

Okay, this is only true if you live in a warm and dry climate and don't have a lead foot.

> However, I don't see a real reason for FWD electric cars other than those being retrofit models.

FWD cars are far more stable than RWD. This is important when driving in the rain as it helps lessen the likelihood of hydroplaning. Non-performance cars aren't just FWD because it's cheaper than RWD to make, but because they're safer.

And if you live in a climate with a lot of snow, you'll definitely want AWD.

> However, I don't see a real reason for FWD electric cars other than those being retrofit models.

As I said, safety. Yes, the traction control in an EV works amazing, arguably better than an ICE, but even better is a drivetrain setup that reduces the need for it entirely.

[baybal2]

> FWD cars are far more stable than RWD. This is important when driving in the rain as it helps lessen the likelihood of hydroplaning. Non-performance cars aren't just FWD because it's cheaper than RWD to make, but because they're safer.

No, when your centre of mass is not that engine block you don't get any of those benefits. FWD vehicles would otherwise be less stable than RWD because of having to fight the pendulum effect.

Remember, economic FWD only became possible thanks to computers both for nailing the best dynamic characteristics on design stage, and helping with dynamic control. That's why FWD were much more crashier before early-mid-nineties.

If there was an option to disable all safety electronics on a modern FWD car, most people would've decided against them in an instant after the first test drive.

[lastofthemojito]

Maybe, but I feel like you could say the same about ICE cars. In general, throw more money at the car, get a bigger, more powerful engine.

There's probably still room for different approaches. Dodge seems to be known for cheap power - you can get a Challenger with a ton of horsepower for way less than say, a Porsche with equivalent horsepower. The Challenger is still based on the Challenger that was released in 2008 (Dodge gets more for their design money by using designs longer) and won't be appointed with interior materials that feel as nice.

Future Dodge might do the same - "let's make the most powerful electric coupe we can for $40k!" as opposed to something like "let's make a nice, comfortable, safe, well-rounded car for $40k".

[karaterobot]

I don't know a ton about electric vehicles, but I do know you can go a long way without a technological differentiator. Variations in materials, design, name brand, and marketing have sustained the fashion industry for quite a while. What's the difference between two pairs or shoes, or two pairs of pants? One isn't fundamentally more advanced then the other, yet there are winners and losers in that industry.

[lolsal]

What is happening to EVs now will not stay constrained to the vehicle itself. We're seeing innovations in terms of integrations - with CarPlay/AndroidAuto, Phone-as-key, wifi APs, surveillance, etc. All of these things are new and have little to do with what is beneath the sheet metal and plastic body panels.

There are also interesting innovations that become more possible as more and more vehicles become "smart" and connected - imagine a metro area that is influencing smart vehicles +/- a few kph to smooth traffic, or route vehicular traffic like networking traffic around outages/problems.

The differentiator(s) won't be ways to make tires spin around an axle differently.

[Ekaros]

Even with ICEs we kinda are there already. Surprisingly many cars are mostly same underneath, but hull, interior etc. are different. I don't see why same won't apply to EVs.

[ungamedplayer]

What about improved battery tech, Weight distribution, Software updates, Safety equipment, internal computers, in car entertainment, in-wheel motors, drive-train connections to electronic towing, theft deterrence ?

[baybal2]

> What about improved battery tech?

We haven't seem much improvement on the market since second gen ternary hit. All coming improvements will be very gradual.

Cars on the market already hit possible upper/lower weight, and size limits for the battery pack.

> Weight distribution

Any other than low, and centre?

> Software updates

Do you want to play videogames on your car? Will you pay few thousand dollars more for a UI skin update once a year?

> in-wheel motors

May be, but that will only work towards killing the differentiation even more, at least in the low end.

[ungamedplayer]

Rather than debate each of these, you have agreed that there is a difference just nothing that you specifically care about.

> Will you pay few thousand dollars more for a UI skin update once a year?

What ? no.. I never said that these were paid updates, I said this was differentiator. Do you want security updates ? Or just to have the software abandoned once it ships.