[keenreed]

I read statistics where 40% of young people do not start family, do not date, and basically withdraw from society. In interviews they blame it on long working hours and rigid rules in society in general.

So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

[Tade0]

Coming from a country where, comparing to Japan:

-Suicide rates are roughly the same.

-Fertility rate was actually lower for a time - currently slightly higher.

-People work considerably more hours per annum.

-Average apartment sizes are lower.

I take such statistics with a grain of salt.

I think that currently they aren't significantly different in this regard than the rest of the developed world.

My anecdata from southern and eastern Europe says that things like stable employment and housing are hard to come by among the Ys and Zs and these are both major hurdles towards starting a family.

[atoav]

From a european perspective I find the current state the US is in vastly more dystopian than Japan. As of now I'd rather live in Japan than the US.

[unishark]

I've been to Japan and it's a wonderful place with many benefits. Very low crime, polite people, etc. The language is the only real problem.

The US, though, is vastly more heterogeneous. There are aspects that are far worse and aspects that are far better. And you can choose. There are infamous high-crime neighborhoods with gang problems; you don't have to live in them. Meanwhile want a job making very good money and with flexible hours and a boss that treats you like an equal? non-existent in Japan.

[barry-cotter]

Please expand. Japan is much, much poorer. The work environment is awful in at least two different ways, dualisation and insane levels of presenteeism. It’s quite sexist by European or US standards. What makes Japan look good?

[rualca]

The US's appalling lack of basic social safety nets, specially regarding healthcare, coupled with its poverty rate (over twice of Brazil's) and violence epidemic don't make it a shining beacon of a functioning society.

Just because STEM graduates in the US can aspire to live in a comfort bubble due to their access to a cushy job, that does not make it an example of a well-functioning society by no means.

It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life.

[barry-cotter]

> It makes absolutely no sense to claim that a country has a well-functioning society if it happens to have a hand full of ultra-rich billionaires while the whole population suffers to barely make ends meet, let alone have a shot at a decent life.

The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity. Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine. The only country or region that consumes more per household is Hong Kong[1]. A comfortable life in the US is available to much, much more of the population than STEM graduates as well.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_household...

[rualca]

> The US is much, much richer than any remotely comparable entity.

The US is 5th in the ranking of median income adjusted to PPP.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income

> Americans do not live the lives of grinding poverty you imagine.

Some people in the US might live well-off, but more than 10% of its population struggles below the official poverty rate.

https://www.census.gov/library/publications/2020/demo/p60-27...

Over 40% of the US population isn't even capable of supporting an emergency 400$ expense.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/10-americans-struggle-cover-400-em...

I suggest you try to take a look outside your bubble to learn how a high percentage of the US population struggles with poverty on a good day.

[kar5pt]

Please provide a source for the claim that the US poverty rate is twice that of Brazil's. You may be comparing the rates of people below the poverty line for that country. Being below the poverty line in the US is still going to be a higher standard of living than being below the poverty line in a developing nation.

[zhdc1]

These sort of comparisons should always be crouched in specifics. The US is a country, while Europe is either a continent or an intranational union, depending on what you're talking about.

Would the average person rather live in, say, Belarus or Nebraska?

[johnnycerberus]

Why would you give up on freedom and live in a society as rigid (not in a derogatory sense) as Japan's? I'm also European, but I would rather live in US than in Japan. I believe opinions on US differ in Europe, you should have said that it's your personal opinion, if you dislike US that doesn't mean that it has any correlation with the fact thay you are European.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Why would you give up on freedom

Not OP, but I would guess the simplest formula is to total up (Heath care - gun violence). i.e. the more likely you are to have health care for whatever happens to you, and the less likely you are to get shot, the better.

I agree with William Gibson: "People who feel safer with a gun than with guaranteed medical insurance don't yet have a fully adult concept of scary." - https://twitter.com/greatdismal/status/385249887891111936

It's a case of what exactly you view as "Freedom". Are medical bankruptcies freedom?

YMMV, you are welcome to choose otherwise. But I put it to you that this costs vs. benefits is a valid, consistent and informed point of view. If you're asking "Why would you?", then that's why.

[unishark]

> Not OP, but I would guess the simplest formula is to total up (Heath care - gun violence). i.e. the more likely you are to have health care for whatever happens to you, and the less likely you are to get shot, the better.

What in the world does that formula have to do with freedom? If anything, you are trying to maximize for security with it, which is generally in opposition to freedom.

As for bankruptcy, it depends on whether you are talking about chapter 7 or chapter 13. Just kidding, that question was nonsense too. I think you're just trying to shoehorn zingers into the response.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> you are trying to maximize for security with it, which is generally in opposition to freedom.

So you're saying that employees who don't dare leave the corporate job because they really depend on the company's healthcare plan are more free. Cool.

> medical bankruptcy ... was nonsense too. I think you're just trying to shoehorn zingers

Great zinger yourself, bro.

You're welcome to equate a growing precariat who are vulnerable to exploitation as "Freedom", but don't expect that opinion to be universal.

[unishark]

Mine was a meta-zinger, apparently. Though I have no idea what you are trying to say with that multi-fragment quote

So if I read between the lines it seems your ideal is some kind of "freedom from want" ...but only when it comes to want of healthcare. You're still cool with needing a corporate job for food, clothing and shelter? And you left out the other factor in your equation, which was gun-related stats. I'm still not seeing a coherent definition of freedom there. Still sounds like you want security to me.

[_hzrk]

Freedom does not translate into gun ownership. That's a very leftist/right-wing thing to say. Seems like people have been hardwired by the media to only think about America in terms of gun violence. When a Yakuza mobster terrorizes a small business in Kyoto, I wonder how a guaranteed medical insurance will help then. Don't forget that Japan is the country with the highest mob involvement in the legitimate economy. If the US gov would shake hands with the Irish/Italian mafia to keep the crime rate low, we would call it a feudal alliance but if Japanese government does systematic coverups, we just call them EFFICIENT.

[SideburnsOfDoom]

> Freedom does not translate into gun ownership.

I am not going to move to Japan for a number of reasons (language and ethnicity for a start) and sure that society isn't either objectively perfect without corruption or prejudice, or perfect for me. So I don't feel the need to defend Japan here (I hope to visit Japan some day!)

However I have seriously considered moving to places in the USA, and I assure you that the question "what is the gun violence to healthcare ratio of that state?" was one of the first questions in my mind. It seems relevant, even though you did not raise it. Both guns and healthcare are representative of a group of related features of the society, of which they are only the most noticeable examples.

[enkid]

Do you have any personal experience or data to back this up, or is this just based on your perceptions?

[atoav]

It is just my perception, but I didn't claim anything more.

[oreally]

> So maybe there is no conflict, but it is hardly functional.

You do realize this is a pretty condescending and closed-minded statement to make no?

It's been said that any developing country going through accelerated economic improvement will have their birth rates reduced by quite a bit. That doesn't make it their society any less functional than say the NRA vs mass shootings, or political gridlocks between parties.

And last I heard Japan was opening up to foreign sources of labour. They are slowly changing their minds and adapting.

[keenreed]

In west birth rate declines because people have more options and want to enjoy life. That was not my experience in Japan. They have rigid culture of corporations, education, hard labor and over achievement. Some people just do not like that. There is no communication, because society does not like conflict!

US politics is other extreme, there is no communication, because society loves conflict! It will get started whenever and wherever possible.