[syops]

I can't comprehend how someone can believe in a flat Earth or that vaccines cause autism but I'm knowledgeable enough about those issues to emphatically state that such people are stupid or willfully ignorant.

With regard to government run healthcare not being socially optimal. The United States spends far more money per capita on healthcare than any universal health care system in the world. There are lots of examples which show that universal healthcare systems can be much more optimal than the American system.

[centimeter]

The factors that cause America to spend a lot of money on healthcare don't go away when you switch to a single payer. If anything, they get worse.

Reform needs to happen elsewhere; for example, we need to stop using taxpayer money for extremely cost-ineffective treatment of very old people (which is where most of our money goes).

[syops]

The factors might not go away. It depends on how the reform is done. To say that they won't go away is incorrect. You don't know this. As with all reforms, they can be done well or poorly.

[centimeter]

Sure, in a magical world where we suddenly switch to a perfect utopian medical system, the problems will go away. But none of the concrete proposals in this thread will make the problems go away.

[syops]

It's hard to claim that this can only happen in a magical world when there are numerous examples of universal healthcare that provide better outcomes with lower costs.