[DoreenMichele]

Coping with gendered stuff happening that helps keep one poor is exhausting whether you discuss it or not. It is even more exhausting to have to put on a happy face and pretend it isn't happening because it makes other people uncomfortable to hear that you are suffering and their behavior might somehow be a factor in that when they don't want to have to contemplate altering their own behavior in some way.

[calylex]

The original subject that bothered you was the fact you were having a hard time recognizing whether something is being sexist or not. To which I suggested a solution and you seem to be dismissing it, namely, that it might help to avoid topics that have a negative psychological effect.

> they don't want to have to contemplate altering their own behavior in some way

This is mutually exclusive from the discussion we are having so I rather not engage in this topic. My original point stands regardless of whether you think there is rampant sexism: the way to cope with it is perhaps to avoid or at least stop seeking discussions about that subject. Much like the people suffering from PTSD shouldn't be exposed to things that make them remember the events that caused their PTSD. I am not saying you have PTSD or even that the problem is in any way shape or form with you or women, I am saying avoiding the discussion of such topics may be the best game-theocratical way of improving one's wellbeing.

[DoreenMichele]

I will reiterate what I said previously: You seem to be reading in a lot more hurt feelings on my part than I really have.

Certainly, I have hurt feelings. Absolutely.

But it doesn't begin to approach anything remotely resembling PTSD.

I can confidently estimate that getting healthier has averted literally millions of dollars worth of medical costs for me and my sons. I just can't talk about that here all that much because people literally call me "crazy" and a "liar" to my face about that topic.

And talking about it also makes me worry that people will use that as an excuse to continue to dismiss my complaints that my gender has proven to be a barrier to networking here and establishing an adequate income. I would like to stop being poor and I never know how to give acknowledgement to HN and the people here for their role in the downright miraculous events of my life while staying the course on saying "My gender remains a barrier to establishing an adequate income and I would like to somehow have that issue resolved."

In Star Wars, everyone focuses on Luke saying "Noooooo!!!!!!" when Darth Vader tells him "I am your father." But the stronger statement of pain in that scene is the silence with which he chooses to fall to what should be his death rather than join his father. (He doesn't die because Leia shows up to miraculously rescue him, but he takes that plunge presumably expecting to die and the statement is "Join my father or die? Give me death, thanks.")

The "loud noise" I sometimes seem to make on HN concerning sexism is the lesser pain compared to issues over which I generally remain silent here.

The whole thing is enormously complicated and there is no good means for me to adequately explain it to you here on HN while maintaining my silence on subjects that I believe other people wouldn't want me to address here.

[calylex]

> You seem to be reading in a lot more hurt feelings on my part than I really have.

It's not about hurt feelings, as I mentioned above, it might be helpful not to focus on such discussions not because they can cause hurt feelings, but because they can actually make your life worse in your personal and professional relationships with men. If 80% of it is "toxic bullshit" you're still missing 20% of constructive criticism coming from men where others are not. We all hope to live in a world where that 20% is 21% but until then why not optimize for receiving constructive feedback by removing any psychological barriers?

I am sorry for your other issues that you cannot talk about here but I'm not sure how that's relevant to the topic. If it's sexism you're talking about, you asserting that you're staying silent on the issue in of itself is not evidence for there being sexism. I'm not sure how to continue this discussion.

[DoreenMichele]

I think I get as much engagement as I do at times on the topic of sexism because I'm pretty even-handed and reasonable. I believe that trying to educate people about how this works and doing so in a non-blamey fashion that doesn't act like "men are all simply assholes!" is one of the most effective things I can do to address the issue and I'm generally satisfied with how that seems to be going, though I certainly wish I had a magic wand and could make it disappear overnight instead of making slow, steady headway on the issue.

This isn't actually a conversation I want to be having. I've already said that once. I've chosen to engage with you because I don't think you are being a jerk. I think your desire to be helpful is sincere and your point of view is reasonable, given what you likely know about me and my relationship to HN.

What I'm trying to tell you is that your conclusions are ill informed through no fault of your own. There are things about which I am consistently silent on HN and that's a conscious and strategic choice and it grows out of circumstances that involve other people, not just me.

For that reason, I don't feel free to simply "explain it to you like you are five" as they say. Doing so would likely violate HN guidelines, violate the privacy of multiple other people and probably just make my problems worse, not better.

So my continued silence is in some sense something I feel compelled to maintain and not really something I feel in a position to choose otherwise about. If other people wish to break their silence for my benefit, that's on them and I have no control over that.

So far, other parties have consistently chosen to err on the side of continued silence (which sometimes feels to me like "covering their asses at my expense," but it's arguably a lot more complicated than that) and it's not something I can remedy by calling them out.

It's also not something I care to call them out on in public because the most pertinent parties have generally proven to be of better character than most of the world and there is nothing to be gained by besmirching their public reputation and giving people an easy scapegoat to focus on. The result would be that 5 million people who are more or less equally guilty of essentially sexist behavior would have a short list of people to pin it on and those people would be harmed without my problems actually being remedied.

"It sucks to be me" as they say. But it's also really, really complicated and has helped save my life -- literally.

I would be thrilled to pieces to discontinue this conversation. Continuing to allude to things I am normally silent on is potentially not in my best interest.

Have a good evening. Please don't be angry if I simply stop replying. It's really not a conversation I wish to continue and I'm very sympathetic to what you are trying to do here and why you likely see things the way you see them, but you simply aren't really in possession of the all facts and I am in no position to remedy that matter and enlighten you.