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by tptacek 1909 days ago
If you buy a car in BTC worth $50k USD at the time of purchase, and, at the time of the refund, the same BTC is worth $75k, they will refund you $50k USD.

If you buy the same car and refund when BTC is worth $25k, they will refund you $25K worth of BTC.

Heads they win, tails you lose.
1 comments
nightski 1909 days ago
That's not what the clause says - or at least point to specific phrase. It says if you buy it for 2 BTC they will refund you 2 BTC (assuming they refund BTC).
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dyslexit 1909 days ago
It is what the clause says, you cut it off just before they say it.

> If you are entitled to a refund of your payment or to a buyback, we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency.

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nightski 1909 days ago
"we reserve the right to refund to you either the exact Bitcoin Price that you provided to us at the time of purchase"

Maybe I am misunderstanding this but it clearly says the BTC Price that you provided at the time of purchase. So if you paid 2.150000 BTC for it that is the price you would be refunded?

"or an amount of US Dollars that is equivalent to the US Dollar price of the product that you purchased, at our sole and absolute discretion, taking into consideration operational efficiency"

The second part of the clause refers to the USD refund amount if they choose to refund in USD and has nothing to do with the first part about BTC.

EDIT: I did not miss the either. I understand you can be refunded in BTC OR USD. The entire point was that if you are refunded in BTC it will be for the BTC amount you paid which is in direct contradiction to what tptacek said. It's just wrong.

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dyslexit 1909 days ago
I'm not sure how this can be broken down any more clearly. The customer is always losing money when they ask for a refund if they pay for the Tesla with BTC unless the price of BTC is exactly the same as it was when the purchase is made. Tesla chooses whether it pays the customer back in BTC or USD. It's pretty clear language. There's nothing that tptacek said that is wrong.
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nightski 1908 days ago
The "Bitcoin Price" it is referring to is the amount of BTC paid for the car, not it's value in USD from my understanding. In other words that won't change. If they refund you in BTC you'll get the same amount of BTC back as you paid. That is what contradicts tptacek.

Of course, they could choose to pay you in USD at which point it may be worth less BTC. But you're still receiving back the full dollar amount of the car that you chose to buy. So it would be the same as converting your BTC to cash at the time of car purchase instead of buying a car. There is nothing nefarious or deceptive going on here by Tesla.

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tptacek 1908 days ago
The contract literally says, above the language we're talking about, that if they choose to refund you in Bitcoin, the Bitcoin they refund you may be worth less in USD than the value of the car. If you pay 2 BTC for a Tesla, you will get 2 BTC back, even if (probably especially if) BTC plummets to $1/BTC.

The other direction is not true: if BTC skyrockets up to $100k/BTC before you ask for a refund, you're getting $50k/USD back.

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tptacek 1909 days ago
You've apparently missed the word "either" in this clause. They get to pick how they refund.
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