[hayst4ck]

> In this case many Chinese think this whole debacle is a based off lies fabricated by dubious western sources

This is very true, our media lies to us, and it lies to you, but isn't there something to be said about not having the freedom to think what you want in your own country, nor being able to read what information you want?

No matter who commits a condemn-able act it should be condemned, most of all if it's your own group. The most scary thing to me about China or a Chinese hegemony is not the shift of power, but that Chinese citizens are unable to be informed nor are they able to condemn their own government. There is no public veto for CPC behavior. China has assumed the role of the victim (century of humiliation), but acts as the abuser (destruction of Tibetan/Uigher/Hong Kong culture and a desire to destroy Taiwan), and then justifies the abuse it doles out by the abuses it has received.

The second most scary thing to me about Chinese hegemony is that dialogue is primarily based around power. Who has the power to do what, not what is morally right, not the rules that should apply to all countries and people, but most of all itself. So what is China's moral basis and ethics system founded upon? Might makes right. That is terrifying to me.

> The problem is whether you western folks will be played by your institutions into doing things that destroy your own credibility in the eyes of the rest of the world.

Does China's own credibility not matter?

[oreally]

> This is very true, our media lies to us, and it lies to you, but isn't there something to be said about not having the freedom to think what you want in your own country, nor being able to read what information you want?

Sure, but priorities need to be in order. The average chinese asian person prefers food, water, medicine, competence, before a moderate amount of freedom within reason. Their 'overton windows' are not as wide as america where you have NRA blocking gun law reviews despite mass shootings. You'd also never have someone of Trump-like competence in charge; there's a certain degree of vetting within the chinese political system.

> The second most scary thing to me about Chinese hegemony is that dialogue is primarily based around power. Who has the power to do what, not what is morally right, not the rules that should apply to all countries and people, but most of all itself. So what is China's moral basis and ethics system founded upon? Might makes right. That is terrifying to me.

'Might makes right' is omnipresent in negotiations of every geopolitical sphere of influence. Yes, the chinese have been increasingly aggressive as of recent, but still I can pluck some facts to ally your fears:

- China hasn't invaded any other country since 1979 Vietnam. That's 30+ years.

- It's more interested in growing it's soft power.

- Chinese have had their children being sent to US varsities. When they return to China they'll have a certain degree of ethical standards and impact over the long term. China's government does still listen to its citizens despite what you think.

> Does China's own credibility not matter?

Yes it matters. It's trying to setup global institutions like the Belt Road Initiative, and other Asian lending bank which I can't remember the name of (which the US dislikes). Time will tell if it makes the same mistakes as the western ones have. As I said, watch them.

[hayst4ck]

>The average chinese citizen prefers food, water, medicine, competence, before a moderate amount of freedom within reason...

Do you think fox news viewers see themselves as manipulated? Do you think these people are born fearing their guns will be taken away and democrats want to murder babies? Do you think they see these things you say as bad? Fox news viewers perceive themselves to be informed, they are adamant that they are and that what they are told is right. They believe their politicians are competent despite all evidence to the contrary.

You say the overton window is more wide in America, but ignore the idea that the overton window is controlled in both china and republican controlled media. The system is the flaw, not the instantiated output of the system.

Do you think with controlled information you could influence Chinese citizen preferences? Do you think an average person would be able to discover incompetence if all whistleblowers were arrested? Do you think the media would report criminal incompetence? If there is incompetence, but the state run media protects it, how do you know if your perception of competence is even remotely correct?

If your government was performing genocide, but reporting on it in a completely different framing, and limiting all direct evidence of the topic, do you think its possible you could be misinformed? Let's assume China is doing truly evil things in Xinjiang. If that was a fact, how would that make you feel?

> Trump-like competence in charge;

Yeah. I am happy Trump was not able to execute any kind of great leap forward.

> China hasn't invaded any other country since 1979 Vietnam. That's 30+ years.

China doesn't invade countries. It declares its territory and then says stay out of internal matters. Otherwise, it might make me feel better, but it's very curious to me, that while I (an American) was in Vietnam, Vietnamese seemed to not have much of a problem with me, but they were very open about their dislike of China.

> Chinese have had their children being sent to US universities.

One can hope, but the idea that investment into china will lead to democratization or a boost to human rights seems pretty bleak. China's action's in Hong Kong made it's heart very clear.

My fears are not allayed and won't be until China gives up on any form of military conquest of Taiwan and Chinese people can speak freely.