[brnt]

To me US 'tipping culture' is very much the same in experience as bribes like these in non-western countries.

I think that basing the definition in bribe on what feels uncomfortable to us personally not a good way to define it. I'm from the Netherlands, and I have heard it said that Dutch corruption exists as much as anywhere, the bribes are just always 0 euro, to ease our consciences. I wish I had a reference or two, but maybe these things are understudied.

[NovemberWhiskey]

>To me US 'tipping culture' is very much the same in experience as bribes like these in non-western countries.

Uh, no. Not in any sense at all are the two similar. I can't even begin to imagine how you come up with that analogy.

When was the last time you tipped a government official? When was the last time you knew that unless you tipped a government official you wouldn't get your task done, even though your documents were in order?

Tipping in the US is overwhelmingly to directly customer-facing staff in private companies, and it is done after the transaction has been completed.

Bribery/facilitation payment is always done before the fact, and is almost uniformly done with governmental (or quasi-governmental) officials.

[irrational]

You must not be familiar with tipping. Tipping always happens to people with no power. Bribery happens to people with power. Nothing bad will happen to me if I never tip (other than perhaps bad karma and some dirty looks). Very bad things can happen to me if I done give bribes. Tipping happens after the service and payment are completed. Bribing happens beforehand. The two are so entirely different on almost every level (especially the power dynamics).

[brnt]

Like I said, personal experience isn't going to get us very far in establishing what bribing is. To me it is certainly very similar.

[NovemberWhiskey]

That's fine but my post isn't about personal experience; it's a list of ways in which the two things are different in a concrete, practical sense based on their common meanings.

Could you expand why you think they are similar rather than just suggesting that the matter is subjective?

[brnt]

In the course of going about ones business, ill-specified amounts need to be paid extra if expedient service is to be expected. This is the local custom.

[el-salvador]

I also find tipping culture similar to bribing. In the sense that it adds to the take home income of the worker receiving the tip/bribe.

[irrational]

But you don’t have to tip. Other than maybe dirty looks absolutely nothing will happen if you don’t tip. The ones being tipped are totally powerless. They are society’s poor. It is closer to a voluntary socialist tax to help the poor than any kind of bribery to officials in a place of power.

[galangalalgol]

I've always viewed tips as a way to let customers decide the merit pay for employees. Does NL have the uber star rating tied to tips? It was a way to make the star rating meaningful. It used to be everyone gave five unless it was terrible service, so uber made you put money where your rating was.

Edit: I remember the public transit being quite good so maybe NL doesn't have uber? I also remember waiters not being very easy to find to ask for anything.

[brnt]

There's Uber, but indeed, I am satisfied with public transport and have never used the likes of Uber.

It's not that I never tip at a restaurant (however, seldomly in NL), it's just that in the US you'll get bills with a percentage already 'included', and it 'is understood' that you must tip _something_, in a way (to me) very similar to bribes elsewhere.

[irrational]

Percentage included only happens for large parties (8 or more). Normally you don’t have to tip. It is entirely voluntary (though strongly encouraged since it is helping the poorest members of society). Think of it like a voluntary socialist tax to help the poor.