[quineoa]

Comments in this thread represent what’s wrong with the industry.

The article references sexual harassment, the commenters care about market share.

Did you know it’s important to hold people accountable more, the more power they have?

It’s one thing if you disagree, but making it about “winners” and “losers” and not about victims is how we ended up creating toxic workplaces.

[restingrobot]

>The article references sexual harassment, the commenters care about market share.

Alleged sexual harassment. Granted I don't know the whole story, but it doesn't seem like there has been anything more than accusations. I don't think its right to fire someone based on heresay. Once he is proven to have crossed the lines, then I'm all for holding him accountable. Until then, I think people should keep the pitchfork in the shed.

Also I'm not defending his commentary, but people are entitled to their own opinions.

[Ygg2]

> The article references sexual harassment, the commenters care about market share.

The sexual harassment is hearsay, and one making accusations (Mozilla) is so deep in bed with Google, if they sneezed Alphabet would come out.

The market share is people way if saying, really, that's what you want to focus on?

[orra]

> Comments in this thread represent what’s wrong with the industry.

It's incredibly troubling. It shows that a hell of a lot of men will excuse incredibly shitty behaviour, because they think 'they're next'.

Not unless they're also being incredibly shitty. Nobody's getting 'cancelled' for bad social skills.

I am pleasantly surprised by the number of people speaking out against harassment these days. The open letter has a lot of signatories, many prominent figures. Sadly, of course, the open letter is necessary.

[MauranKilom]

> Nobody's getting 'cancelled' for bad social skills.

People have been cancelled for less.

Here's a guy facing a closed door tribunal for jokingly saying in a keynote that someone was wrong on technical points:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24926214

Here is someone getting character-assassinated because... We don't know why. This guy made others uncomfortable, or so the organizers said. Other examples of similar stories in there too:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12422420

The discussion of whether what RMS has done in the past (and still does? I don't know? Did he repent?) crosses a line in the sand that you (and others) see between bad social skills and actual harassment needs more nuance than "people don't get cancelled for the wrong reasons".

[nyolfen]

the sexual harassment was asking women at conferences on dates

[Ygg2]

He's obviously an animal, devoid of all reason./sarcasm

[orra]

You're downplaying it entirely. He has a track record of handing out sexualized 'pleasure cards' at professional conferences.

Women at MIT were warned away from him, told to keep plants to ward him off.

And one of the most troubling things he has done is psychological manipulation. Many jurisdictions rightly recognise as domestic abuse. In particular, he told one woman he would kill himself if she didn't date him.

Depressed people should seek treatment. Being depressed doesn't excuse manipulation.

[vlsmaker]

For heavens sake, "business or pleasure?" was the question you were asked at the border before getting a stamp in your passport once upon a time.

So a business card turned into a pleasure card, which has nothing to do with sex at all, except for people who want to see things that aren't there.

It's one of RMS's quaint re-namings, and people turn it into something sinister.

> Women at MIT were warned away from him, told to keep plants to ward him off.

That may have been a joke or they didn't want to listen to his preaching. Anecdotal hearsay anyway.

> he told one woman he would kill himself if she didn't date him.

How did he say that? Most likely as a joke, which millions of people have done.

But hey, let's focus on Stallman who wasn't even involved with Epstein himself instead of the people that Epstein collected dossiers about. Those would be the interesting ones, but perhaps some corporate or political interests don't allow it.

[throwawaysea]

Thank you for the explanation of the "business or pleasure" connection. That's how I read it as well but with everyone pulling out their torches and scythes for a witch hunt, I was starting to second guess my own opinion and perception of all this. I'm not sure if there's a word for that phenomenon...

[crtasm]

For reference here's one of the cards (I don't know if he made other versions): https://fossforce.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/RMSleisure....

[orra]

You downplay the sexual harassment of handing out these 'pleasure cards'.

But ultimately, real women are upset by it. The unprofessional behavior discourages women from being in tech.

Just because you wouldn't mind receiving such a card, doesn't mean it's not harassment. I mean, do you understand (a) the nature of consent, and (b) professional workplace environments?

[nyolfen]

you realize that the situation you are describing is 'being handed a business card', right

[posix_me_less]

Which real women? Why could they not reject such card?

[shock]

> But ultimately, real women are upset by it.

I wouldn't call anyone (woman or man) that can't handle being upset "real". In fact it is the opposite of it. It shows a distinct lack of skills in dealing with reality, that is if you accept that real life is not just rainbows and sunshine, no matter how much we desire so.

[loveistheanswer]

>In particular, he told one woman he would kill himself if she didn't date him.

>Depressed people should seek treatment. Being depressed doesn't excuse manipulation.

I've been on the receiving end of that same situation; and yet, I don't think inciting an internet hate mob to banish that person from their life's work indefinitely is the proper "treatment" I'd recommend to give that person.

[orra]

Again, mental health doesn't excuse domestic abuse.

[yellowapple]

This is not domestic abuse.

[loveistheanswer]

What makes you think I said it did?