[LudwigNagasena]

So many words about race, nationality, community, white privilege and literally no mention of wealth, economic inequality or at least increased mobility of labour. This is what I “love” about modern American discourse.

[undefined1]

exactly. the elites couldn't be happier about the discourse being diverted away from the real issues. instead they have everyone caught up in a moral panic over melanin and identity.

https://i.imgur.com/wusW5Rn.jpg

[RestlessMind]

Ding ding ding!

Focus on identity politics started around 2014-15 (IIRC around Ferguson, MO riots). I always thought that that was a convenient distraction from the real elephant in the room - wealth inequality, poverty, classism - which was being highlighted by the Occupy movement.

It is almost as if "nefarious elites" pushed the media narratives about racism, sexism and all other -isms in order to divide the masses. Same as prior culture wars about relatively minor issues - who uses which bathrooms or abortion etc - which affect only a tiny subset of the society.

[bobthechef]

Sowing artificial conflict among the plebes is a tried and true technique.

[lotsofpulp]

The surprising thing to me is that in previous eras the plebes didn’t have access to data or education or literacy to maybe realize this, but what is the plebe’s excuse nowadays? Only one I can come up with is many of the plebe’s think they’re eventually going to not be plebes.

[nemothekid]

I think "plebes" back then had a tool to balance the dynamic: unions. I previously wasn't a union guy, but the more I read into it the more I realized two things about the union as an organization:

1. Unions provide negotiating power against elites.

2. Unions were the last remaining non-religious, working-class, political action organizations.

I think the second point is important and a underrated when it comes to union power, and more importantly might be more important than being able to negotiate wages. In the past, unions used to be actual voting blocs, so it provided a secondary mechanism for the working class to exert their political power. That is almost impossible now, and as a result our politicians answer more to wealthy PACs than anything else. Without unions, most people are politically inactive, or self-select into red/blue due to culture factors or team sports.

Without an organization it's literally impossible for any individual to overcome the system even if they realize the problems within; and it's hard to not get involved in identity politics when if you lose it means you lose your job/housing/opportunities.

[imtringued]

The obvious reason why the wealthy "win" in politics is that they organize. In principle, lobbyism is just the act of telling politicians what you want. There is nothing wrong with it but if only one side is communicating then the politicians are going to fulfill the demands of that side.

[shoemakersteve]

Because while the plebes have access to data, a lot of that data is biased, misleading, or it isn't and they've been convinced that it is.

[clipradiowallet]

What mentions do you think should have been there? I'm having trouble understanding if you are agreeing, disagreeing, or <other> with the parent post. Could you elaborate?

[stjohnswarts]

Those are inextricably locked up with race in America, you aren't paying attention to statistics if you don't think there's correlation. Sure there are poor whites. but your chance of being poor and white is much lower than if you're black or latino. A huge portion of it does depend on who currently holds wealth and that is extremely weighted towards white people. The bootstrapping methodology/theory only gets you so far. Sure some people manage to break through the glass ceiling. I managed to break away from being "poor white trash" for example. I was also quite gifted in math/science and had uneducated but stable, caring parents. Lots of people in my community grew up in pure chaos and drugs and didn't stand a chance and fell right into the same destructive patterns. Sure there's the whole 99% vs 1% but race can't be swept under the rug while you're far more likely to die by cop if you're a POC rather than white. We can be activists for both types of change.

[LudwigNagasena]

I am not sure how any of these justifies talking only about race and ignoring economic conditions. Sure, race can’t be swept under the rug, and I didn’t said it should be. It is overemphasized at expense of other issues.

It is especially weird when you look at the history of the concept “gentrification”, even the word comes from “gentry”, which basically means upper class, and it exists also in monoethnic cities. The basis of the issue doesn’t lie in the race.

[howinator]

Totally a fair criticism, but I can't look past race when the white residents are accusing the mostly brown car club of dealing drugs.

[viklove]

Sadly, the discourse is the same in Western Europe.