[zuminator]

If the universe "began" at t=0, and life began at, let's call it t=100, then all we need is access to t=99, not all the way back to the beginning. I'm not saying that's actually achievable, I'm just saying your argument is not persuasive.

[gher-shyu3i]

I gave it as an example to close the debate fully, because I'm aware of this line of arguing. The point remains, (1) life will not be possible without the universe, (2) the universe exists, and (3) we do not have access to the knowledge about how the universe was created, nor before it was created.

[michaelmrose]

Lets go to Wile E. Coyote for this one.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e2/f0/16/e2f0165777598a13c246...

Anvils would not be possible without the universe ergo we cannot possible predict solely on our knowledge of Warner Brothers physics and prior plot lines that the anvil trap he is laying will fall on his own head comically flattening him yet somehow leaving him alive and ready to chase the road runner again in the next sketch.

Our models don't capture every aspect of the world but good models capture enough to make increasingly good predictions about the past and future and the more we test them and winnow out the bad we approach but can never achieve perfection. The origin of life isn't inherently any different than the evolution of the continents, the planets, or the tree of life over the eons. No fundamental barrier stands in the way of our understanding. You didn't "close the debate fully". Nobody who didn't start out agreeing with you now does and its because they understand things you do not.

[l8rlump]

I wonder what the odds are of a single Looney Tunes episode coming into being without intelligent design, let alone our infinitely more complex universe. I also wonder about Wile E's ability to comprehend the ways of Messrs. Hanna and Barbera.

[michaelmrose]

In a universe where it never happened we just never had this discussion.