[kalleboo]

The biggest problem with Java was that it sucked. Java took too long (and too much RAM) to initialize, was too slow to add features, and had too poor developer tools to become the runtime for the web.

Instead Flash took that spot! Only because Flash eventually also ended up sucking too bad (on mobile) did we get the Javascript revolution.

If Java sucked less and developed at the same pace as Flash did, but was open enough that the browsers could implement their own <applet> runtime replacements (for instance if Java was more important for the web than for the server, Google may have bought Sun instead of Oracle), we would probably live in a very different world today.

[jasode]

>Only because Flash eventually also ended up sucking too bad (on mobile) did we get the Javascript revolution.

If "mobile" means the Apple iPhone release in 2007 not supporting Flash, I disagree.

The Javascript revolution for serious apps was arguably started by ~2000 Microsoft's XMLHttpRequest() api which other other browsers like Netscape immediately copied. This started the AJAX dynamic web page era ~7 years before 2007. When retrieving new data for a webpage is no longer tied to a user refreshing with F5 key or a HTML form submit() button, it enables a more desktop-like paradigm of apps such as:

- 2000 MS Outlook for Web

- 2004 Google Maps, Google GMail

- 2005/2006 Google Docs & Google Sheets (acquisitions)

These were the type of groundbreaking Javascript apps that convinced many that the often-dismissed "toy language" was viable for complex work. The later innovations such as 2009 Node.js runtime on the server side and 2008 V8 performance optimized js engine in Chrome just further cemented Javascript's domination. The Javascript mindshare momentum was already unstoppable long before Steve Job's declared that Flash sucked.

[DonHopkins]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25304202

Reminds me of one of Microsoft's first Dynamic HTML demos:

There were two buttons, one labeled "Our Web Site", the other labeled "Our Competitor's Web Site".

When you moved the mouse over the "Our Competitor's Web Site" button, it would quickly slide out from under your cursor before you could click it!

Then when you stopped moving your mouse, the "Our Web Site" button would slyly slide right underneath your mouse!

Dammit Microsoft!!! ;)

[agumonkey]

flash was adressing another side of that coin, presentation/appeal/multimedia

ajax was big but at best it meant slightly more dynamic business application, flash made only videos and freeform graphics ubiquitous (for better or worse)

[ungzd]

Multimedia died in late 90s. No one no longer wanted to read text in tiny unscrollable unsearchable rectangle with "real book-like" page flipping animation and colorful textured background. All these things looked garish and vulgar long before "web 2.0" and mass javascriptization.

Flash was only good for games, short animated movies and tolerable for videos and audio (before web video standards).

[anthk]

Eh, no. Bullshit. Computer encyclopedias like Encarta were huge back in the day.

If any, multimedia was HUGE in late 90's. You would have a CD-ROM for ANY content, hobby or knowledge branch.

And OFC things like Shockwave (and previously, Director) made them ubiquitous.

[corpMaverick]

From what I remember. IE was the dominant browser. And they refused to upgrade their JVM. I believe it stayed 1.1 for years. So basically, MS knee caped Java.