[spideymans]

>The prompting for purchase and trials is VERY explicit. So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month- I mean, the scams and tricks are endless off app store.

I really wish government or credit card companies would impose rules on merchants that prohibit this kind of behaviour. It's very easy to get bitten by subscription scams, even from companies that appear legitimate.

The lack of regulation on this matter just leaves Apple with justification to act as a payment gatekeeper.

[random5634]

Apple has focused pretty heavily on the user experience, developers be damned.

I know this is not popular on HN (ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere).

They haven't been stupid / annoying about it. You contrast their controls with those outside ios.

The russian site I visit with the cookie notice, they can still track me and what am I going to do about it? So the cookie notice is both annoying an ineffective against bad actors. On iOS, I decline a permission, and it's done.

[Daho0n]

It's exactly as ineffective in iOS. You are just comparing apples to rocketships (iPhone app Vs russian site in browser). Besides, top story on HN says Tiktok will track iOS users, circumventing apple's attempt to block it. So you decline and feel nice and fluffy but it didn't do much. It's worse on Android but there people with knowledge can at least fix it. In iOS you can't even install a proper adblocker. If you want the privacy you to be as effective as you say Apple will need to control every site in your browser like they do with apps.

[spideymans]

>ie, anti-trust claims to allow devs to abuse users the way they can elsewhere

I can't lie. When I see companies like Match Group complaining that iOS policies prevent them from surreptitiously locking their "customers" into subscriptions[0], I can't help but chuckle. This is precisely why I bought an iPhone.

0: https://nypost.com/2019/11/06/tinder-owners-stock-tumbles-af...

[random5634]

Ya - if you look at list of complainers - folks running loot boxes, lock in uncancelable subscriptions etc, crazy privacy violators (Facebook). there is so much money in this though I don’t see how they don’t get political folks to force apples hand - joined by a surprising number of HN devs - the focus on what is best for user is long gone

[eropple]

I agree with your general point, but I raised my eyebrows at this:

> So for example, NY Times has a banner (not on ios) saying signup for $1/week. Great, you do it. Then you find out that in a month it switches to something like $15/month

Out of curiosity, I went incognito (as I'm an NYT subscriber) and clicked that banner just now, and it says it's $1/week for a year, not a month ($4.25/week afterwards). I'm pretty sure I've been seeing that offer for years, too.

Maybe you're in a different cohort or something but that's a weird and antagonistic way to treat a customer that's going to drop people out of a funnel so I'm wondering if you're misremembering.

[random5634]

Actually, I just went to it and it's much clearer and better than it was. It is a year for me now.

That said, here is a recent BBB complaint. When I cancelled 2 years ago it was worse (no option to chat, you had to call and they left you on hold).

--- Complaint Type: Billing/Collection Issues

02/16/2021

I am nearing the end of a promotional offer from the NYTimes which offered a 1 year digital subscription for $4/month. I don't plan to continue a subscription at the full price and logged into my account to cancel my subscription. Within my online profile, there is no button labeled "cancel my subscription" or any similar option. I am only given the options to change my email or password, or update my card. This seems like a serious abuse to me a customer to decide whether or not I want to pay for the service. I have now been chatting with an agent for 15 minutes and still haven't been given an option to cancel my account. As of right now, I've been chatting long enough with a representative to fill out this BBB complaint and still haven't had anyone help me close my account. I have screenshots of my entire conversation with the agent if that's helpful.

https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/publishers-period...

----

It's not that every fly by night website does this (NY Times is not exactly fly by night), but enough do that people really hesitate to sign up outside of the more trusted Apple walled garden - I know I do because I don't have time for this.

MyHeritage was even worse though, surprised there are not more lawsuits, they somehow found out my NEW card number after I cancelled my card to avoid them.

So while Apple is allowed to run their store their way without the scammers getting into the mix, I'll keep giving them my money happily. That said, HN devs and these types of companies all hate it I'm sure (not realizing that this is why apple phone users spend so much more - the well hasn't been poisoned by their stupidity)

[wrycoder]

Wall Street Journal after teaser is $468 per year.