[claudiawerner]

I'm yet to see anyone describe themselves as simply a 'trained Marxist' without any indication as to what that might mean specifically, other than these BLM leaders. A 'trained Marxist guerilla'? Sure. A 'trained Marxist economist'? Sure. 'Educatied in Marxism'? Sure. Even just a 'Marxist', sure. But even with the Leninist part (which the quote doesn't specify - there are plenty of non-Leninist Marxists about) it's unclear what it means to be a 'trained' one. It's not as though there's a 'Marxism coach' somewhere who trains you on understanding the significance of the ratio between constant and variable capital or the labour theory of value.

It's hilarious because it's so vague, not because there are guerillas or revolutionaries who have been trained by Marxists in agitprop/organizing/guerilla tactics. In short, what's the difference between being a 'trained Marxist' and 'educated in the works of Marx and Engels'? If I heard someone describe themselves as a 'trained literary critic', I'd think exactly what GP pointed out too.

My comment is just as much a criticism of the vagueness of the BLM leaders as it is the people who accept them at their word without even inquiring into what it means. For all we know, they could literally just be holding a philosophy degree completed with a Master's project in an aspect of Marxist philosophy.

[ctrlp]

Right, if you haven't seen it it must not exist. Are you from Missouri? If that level of radical skepticism works for you, good on ya. Personally, I don't conflate things that I don't know with things that can't be known.

A trained Marxist is an activist, it's really that simple. The point is not to interpret the world but to change it yada yada yada. A Leninist is a Marxist who believes the proletariat is too economically comfortable to bring about the revolution and therefore an intellectual vanguard of "trained" revolutionaries (marxist activists) are required to lead the way. Time to hit the books!

[claudiawerner]

>Right, if you haven't seen it it must not exist. Are you from Missouri? If that level of radical skepticism works for you, good on ya.

There's no need for a confrontational tone. In the past I've interacted with many Marxists, activists, organizers, and academics. I'm more trying to apply my experience to the topic, not to suppose that nobody describes themselves as a 'trained Marxist'.

>A trained Marxist is an activist, it's really that simple.

Why do we see people describe themselves as 'Marxist activists' etc. more than 'trained Marxists', then? If somebody learned Marxist philosophy in private, does this make them a 'trained Marxist'? Who trained them, in that case?

>A Leninist is a Marxist who believes the proletariat is too economically comfortable

I know it's a technicality, but this is not the reason behind the vanguard party. The idea of a proletariat which is too comfortable with capitalism is more of a Frankfurt School flourish on Marxism, and bypasses Lenin entirely. The vanguard party, at least in Leninist theory, is not a specially trained force of revolutionaries, but a party (in the normal sense of the word) open to anyone to join. It's not a group of trained revolutionaries (and perhaps you recognize this by the fact you put 'trained' in quotes). In theory, the vanguard party could be completely transparent (in the sense of not even being a formal party, but encompassing all who share in the ideals), or even non-activists (such as academics) and untrained people (such as those who have come accross Marx without any outside influence or instruction) could be a part of it.

Obscuring 'trained Marxists' into 'Marxist activists' requires a non-obvious interpretation of 'trained' and 'activism' which misses out on the nuance of both. An activist for animal rights along Peter Singer's philosophy is not a "trained utilitarian", nor even a "trained animal rights activist". An an activist for Stallman's free software philosophy is not necessarily a "trained free software activist". If all 'trained Marxists' are 'Marxist activists', then the obverse would have to be true as well, but I can think of many 'Marxist activists' who have a very poor grasp on Marx and Engels, to the point where it would be farcical to call them 'trained Marxists', much in the same way a 'trained programmer' who can barely write more than a fizzbuzz would be a farcical designation.

People can be trained guerillas, trained activists, etc. - because those are things you do, and the origin of the knowledge is inherently practical and handed down by someone external. Marxism, however, does not provide practical guidance (at least not in any sense, as Marx admits, to be relevant after he initially wrote the Manifesto). It's theory, and you're reading 'activists' into it in a way that has nothing to do with the ordinary meaning of 'training' or 'activist'.

[ctrlp]

This is the point of the Leninist party politics. It is the activist embodiment of Marxism. The Frankfurt School was trying to understand why the revolution had only occurred in Russia despite the predictions of Marx's theory. Their reasoning was post-hoc rather than strictly causal but it is the reason given to account for the failure of the proletarian class to rise up in class consciousness and the justification for a vanguard to lead the way. It remains Leninist despite the involvement of the Frankfurt School. In fact, it really proves the point. The training is literally training in revolutionary tactics. Peter Singer qua philosopher us not an activist, but of course there are trained activists in the animal rights movement who are trained in tactics to promote an agenda rooted in utilitarian reasoning. Sorry for the snark but you seem to be engaging in a bit of casuistry or being willfully obtuse about the ordinary meanings of activist and training.