[Rusky]

> When you conceptualize a bunch of stuff as different objects with different lifetimes, you are going to write code treating stuff as different objects with different lifetimes. That is slow.

This is not how lifetimes work at all. In fact this sounds like the sort of thing someone who has never read or written anything using lifetimes would say: even the most basic applications of lifetimes go beyond this.

Fundamentally, any particular lifetime variable (the 'a syntax) erases the distinctions between individual objects. Rust doesn't even have syntax for the lifetime of any individual object. Research in this area tends to use the term "region" rather than "lifetime" for this reason.

Lifetimes actually fit in quite nicely with the sorts of things programs do to optimize memory locality and allocations.

> Sure, and that covers a small percentage of the use cases I am talking about, but not most of them.

Fortunately the other stuff you are talking about works just fine in Rust as well.

[jblow]

I am talking about RAII. RAII leads to programs that are inherently slow.

[pornel]

Rust's flavor of RAII is different from C++'s, because Rust doesn't have constructors, operator new, implicit copy constructors, and doesn't expose moved-out-of state.

Rust also has "Copy" types which by definition can be trivially created and can't have destructors. Collections take advantage of that (e.g. dropping an array doesn't run any code).

So I don't really get what you mean. Rust's RAII can be compiled to plain C code (in fact, mrustc does exactly that). It's just `struct Foo foo = {}` followed by optional user-defined `bye_bye(&foo)` after its last use (note: it's not free/delete, memory allocator doesn't have to be involved at all).

I suspect you're talking about some wider programming patterns and best practices, but I don't see how that relates to C. If you don't need per-object init()/deinit(), then for the same you wouldn't use RAII in Rust either. RAII is an opt-in pattern.

[Rusky]

RAII is completely orthogonal to lifetimes, for one thing. You can have either without the other.

But, I am familiar with the kind of thing you're complaining about here, and frankly the mere existence of RAII is not its cause. Working with a large dataset, managing allocation/layout/traversal in a holistic way, you just... don't write destructors for every tiny piece. It works fine, I do it all the time (in both Rust and C++).