[dansimau]

I grew up in the city in Australia. Once when I crossed the road (as a pedestrian) at a red light, a police officer on the other side of the street stopped me and gave me a warning for jaywalking. Before I had walked, I had looked both ways and deemed it safe; there was no traffic and no other pedestrians waiting.

(In my mind: I am just a person on planet Earth, trying to get from position A to position B, less than 5 metres away).

Having now lived in the UK and Netherlands for over 10 years, I feel this would never happen here. I would expect this in the US though (so I rarely jaywalk on the few times I have been there).

I tell this anecdote as an example to my friends when I try to describe how Australia has a mix of influences from both Europe and the US.

[Chmouel]

As someone who was doing the other way around (hey dan!) working in australia coming from france i always find it weird how australian could accepts almost everything from the government with not much contestation,

I remember when there was a law who passed thru in Australia where every small company could fire anyone on the day (it wasn't the case before, i think there was a 3 month period or something).

The law passed and the only comments I could get from colleague at that time (not from you dan ;)) was "humm okay then"

In france there would be riots for months and years if such law passed.

[Nursie]

Honestly I think France is somewhat exceptional there, with the rioting for workers rights.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it does seem unusually French.

From what I can tell the workers rights situation in France really does dissuade some companies from setting up there.

[kmeisthax]

France's exceptionalism was that people had time to riot. Most countries drown their precariat in work and cortisol. France has shorter weekdays so even well-to-do people can protest. This is no longer exceptional to France; the pandemic has dramatically increased the number of Americans who are both unemployed and have the resources to protest. That's why we get riots every few months and why those riots are not unique to one particular political movement anymore.

[rsynnott]

I mean, France is possibly an extreme case here, but in most developed countries this would be pretty unthinkable (assuming it really is a law that just allows small businesses fire people without notice in normal circumstances; firing people without notice for gross misconduct or due to liquidation is generally allowed, though in the liquidation case the employees would then usually be creditors for the notice pay that should have been paid in most places).

[Nursie]

Yeah I agree it's not good. I was disturbed enough to hear about "at will" rules in the US and that seems like more of the same.

I think there would be a lot of noise in the press about it here, but I don't think riots in the streets would be part of it!

[hnick]

Australia is very apathetic in general. "She'll be right" is basically our national motto and while it can be good for overcoming external adversity and natural disasters, I don't think it's serving us too well when dealing with internal human and political factors.

[bb123]

Haha yes, "revenue based policing". Australia is pretty bad for that. I once got a $300 speeding fine for doing 1kph above the limit. In general though I think policing in Australia is still very different to the states. Police in the US inspire fear. They just don't in the UK and Australia.

[chocmilk]

> Having now lived in the UK and Netherlands for over 10 years, I feel this would never happen here.

It wouldn't happen in the UK because jaywalking is not a crime in UK.

Quiet Australians accept authority moreso than UK folk.

[dash2]

> Quiet Australians accept authority moreso than UK folk.

This is so far from my stereotype of Aussies that I feel sure it must be a troll, designed to bring out a legion of shirtless, shrimp-barbecuing cobbers, turning the air blue with their feelings about authority.

[marcus_holmes]

Dual-national UK/Aussie here (ethnically a "Pom" then).

It's definitely true. Australia loves the smack of firm government and is quietly very, very authoritarian.

There's an Aussie term "Wowsers" [0] which is fascinating, as there is no British equivalent term. It often feels like the Wowsers and the Larrikins [1] are fighting an endless battle for Australia's soul. The Wowsers always win.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wowser [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larrikin

[chocmilk]

Aus's acceptance of authority:

* Lockout laws

* Jaywalking laws

* Weaker environmental protests than UK, despite Aus lagging the rest of the world on environmentalism.

* Mandatory helmet laws.

* Illegal to perform DIY electrics, e.g. change a plug.

* International travel currently banned. To leave Australia at the moment would require either exemption, or I relinquish citizenship.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots was the last riot involving shirtless shrimp barbecuing cobbers. Not a proud moment.

[Nursie]

> Illegal to perform DIY electrics, e.g. change a plug.

??

As someone moving to Australia in a few months, I feel like this is something I ought to know about...

> International travel currently banned.

This is the same in many countries, including the UK right now.

[chocmilk]

"DIY (do it yourself) electrical work is dangerous and illegal." https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/electrical-safety/in-the-home#...

Arduino is fine.

> This is the same in many countries, including the UK right now.

Yes, true in UK during the past 1-2 months of national lockdown?

Aus's has been the case for 12 months.

[Nursie]

Is it only 1-2 months? Feels like an eternity...

Current lockdown started on the 4th of Jan, and the travel restrictions came in then. We also had lockdown part 2 back in November, for the whole of November, lockdown part 1 from April-June last year, and various degrees of lockdown in between with regional variations...

I've lived in Aus before, and I agree it's great for many reasons, am looking forward to being back.

On the electrical thing, I know there are some restrictions on what you can do in the UK - putting in new circuits, adding new lighting circuits etc. I've pushed the boundaries a bit here AFAICT by fixing a lighting circuit* and swapping a few single sockets for doubles. Other work like putting cat 6 in the walls I did myself without a thought. Looks like I need to take a look at the regs.

( * the light switch in our bedroom somehow flicked between "one bulb on" and "two bulbs in series", with no off setting )

(oh wow, you're right, I can't change a light fitting, or even legally change a plug from UK -> Aus without breaking the law. Will have to buy new cables where I can, maybe change one or two plugs before I leave!)

[bubblethink]

This page is tragically funny. It ends with 'You should never attempt to carry out any electrical maintenance other than changing a light globe.'

[4cao]

>> International travel currently banned.

> This is the same in many countries, including the UK right now.

It isn't really. Many countries barred non-resident non-citizens from entering but only a couple went to the extent of attempting to prohibit their own citizens from leaving. The latter restriction is far more draconian.

[Nursie]

> only a couple went to the extent of attempting to prohibit their own citizens from leaving

OK then, but the UK is currently one of those places. Without good reason it's currently prohibited.

ANd I honestly don't have a problem with it, we're in the midst of a pandemic. :shrug:

[chocmilk]

Aus is great though, for other reasons.

[tubularhells]

Care to elaborate?

[hnick]

Jaywalking is an odd example since I've lived in Sydney for 20 years and don't know anyone busted for it. I've seen many people cross at lights like this even with police cars sitting and waiting in traffic in clear sight.

I think what happens is they just get told one day to target it, when they'll stand around and catch people, otherwise they just don't care unless they take a personal dislike to you. I have heard of times they'll descend on Sydney CBD intersections like this in mobs to send a message. The rest of the time, jaywalking is generally very casually done here and not really a big deal like in some US movies.

[dkersten]

I’ve been yelled at by police in Germany for crossing the road without a pedestrian crossing, but Germany is rather unamerican over all. So I think getting yelled at for jaywalking isn’t really much of an indicator for a place being American.

[Nursie]

> Having now lived in the UK and Netherlands for over 10 years, I feel this would never happen here

Weird, as I met a dutch woman in Australia, from Maastricht, who was deathly afraid of crossing the road at the wrong time because where she was from she could get in trouble for that.

Whereas I lived in WA for a couple of years and never saw anything like it.

[hackeraccount]

As a person living in an east coast city in the USA I can assure you - no worries just sprint across the street; no one cares.