[penetraitor69]

Speaking as a (now-ex) mormon, this is a very flattering characterization that unfortunately skips over a couple important points.

For one, mormonism is a very conservative religion. From blacks voting to gays marrying, the church's stance is "morality peaked in the early 1800s, and everything since then has been backsliding". It is also a very America-centric religion, implicitly and explicitly teaching manifest destiny: that America's founding was ordained by god specifically to facilitate the church's "restoration" (mormonism maintains that it is the "original christianity" practiced by ancient hebrews, don't think about that too hard), that Columbus and the founding fathers were all moral paragons, divinely inspired to that end. It's very insular; you can scarcely go a sunday without some warning about Lastly, it is a religion with a very top-down command structure; "obeying your leaders, even if they're wrong, will bring blessings from god" is an explicit teaching.

So it should come as no surprise that Utah suffers from some of the highest rates of affinity fraud in the nation; mormonism is good at making hard workers who obey orders; it's not so great at producing independent thinkers or whistleblowers who'll hold their bosses accountable, nor who will think twice about maintaining the status quo. Those who do break that mold are unlikely to fit in with their mormon peers, assuming they don't just leave on their own (which about 2/3rds of then do).

Naturally, if you're running a federal agency with a questionable history, tasked with maintaining the state of the union, that's exactly what you're looking for: a rule follower and order obey-er, not some "free spirit" who could blow the lid off of whatever scheme you're cooking up that week.

[lcall]

Actually, I am not aware of anything anywhere that says that about the 1800s as the Church's stance, but rather that we should keep God's commandments (such as those the Lord gave in the sermon on the mount (meekness, the Golden Rule), the 10 commandments, honesty, etc). The scriptures (and Handbook) are open for all to consider, as are the talks given in our 2x/year General Conference, decades of official announcements, etc, and that is what I at least have found influential, and am working at. In any large group there is a variety of imperfect individuals, of course, who like me are not official reps.

The principles of US Constitution, and honesty, and doing what Jesus Christ actually taught, are really important doctrinally for the Church.

[david-cako]

You could also argue that going into law enforcement or military is an above-and-beyond commitment that people of faith excel in. Conservatism is a focus on whatever may be conserved. Mormons are generally raised to commit themselves to the world around them in an act of faith.

People are talking a lot about "neoliberalism", which is interesting to me; sometimes it seems like a reversal to the British definition of liberal, where in the US we typically say conservative to mean "less programs", but in some ways "more federated power".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_consensus

wait, what's conservatism??

Neoliberals in the US are now saying we can have a deregulated cake that is also able to make social guarantees. This is compelling to me, because it's clear that businesses have an overwhelming amount of influence in the US; if there's too much distance from their accountability, it's difficult to measure it. If it is also a business's responsibility to do shit right and make favorable agreements with the government and the US as a whole, maybe they're onto something.

The LDS church seems exceptionally "neoliberal", by some definitions. "Owned and operated", "disaster-recovery-by-default".

[penetraitor69]

You could, but you could also argue that law enforcement and the military attract people with very black-and-white views of morality and society; people who who already unconditionally consider themselves and those like them the "good guys", and everyone else as a potential enemy; people who join the force to "beat up the bad guys" without much consideration of who the alleged "bad guys" are. Given America's widespread problems with police brutality, its police's steadfast opposition to increased accountability measures, and my personal observations of family members and neighbors in the force, I'm inclined to think it's the latter.

You're largely correct with regards to calling the church "neoliberal"; it is infatuated with deregulation (most $100 billion dollar corporations are). However, it's not particularly interested in "social guarantees". To put it in perspective, the church demands 10% of its members' income be tithed to it as admission to "the celestial kingdom" (super V.I.P. heaven); to assuage the fears of those who don't really have 10% to spare, the church tells them they can rely on "the bishop's storehouse", a fund for struggling members. However, in practice many members are unable to get the assistance they need; bishops are actually explicitly instructed to tell members to borrow from friends or family before approaching the church, despite the church's likewise explicit teaching that "if you have to choose between feeding your family and paying tithing, pay tithing".

[klyrs]

> Utah suffers from some of the highest rates of affinity fraud in the nation

Saw that when I lived there...

> it's not so great at producing independent thinkers or whistleblowers who'll hold their bosses accountable, nor who will think twice about maintaining the status quo.

As I understand it, this works out great for the NSA. Given the plurality of mormons that I've met who work there.

[gremlinsinc]

Also being ex-mormon, I think one leg up mormon's have and probably really the only redeeming thing from the standpoint of the FBI to set them apart is foreign missions and world-experience from that.

I'm very progressive, one wedge against me is the gay-hate (i'm not gay, but I empathize with the community), and hearing a high priest group leader bash Obama and Gays from the pulpit made me stay home long enough and become inactive, the CESLetter did the rest years later.

I'm no fan of Obama anymore (too centrist) however I've noticed as far as States go... Utah is odd. It's not "all" special interests (unless that interest is the church), there's a fair more left-friendly legislating for a bright-red state than some of the southern alternatives. I was amazed they passed medical marijuana.

There's also more support for the people (they just raised medicaid as an example.)

Maybe there's a bit more compassion than your normal evangelical, a tiny bit less hypocrisy. Though, I'm betting the less-hypocritical are the ones who are leaving in droves because once they see it's fake they can't be part of it. It's not about culture to them.

It also had the lowest support for Trump in 2016, it's really a peculiar state in terms of ... how they think and act.

> Naturally, if you're running a federal agency with a questionable history, tasked with maintaining the state of the union, that's exactly what you're looking for: a rule follower and order obey-er, not some "free spirit" who could blow the lid off of whatever scheme you're cooking up that week.

This is the meat of it. Mormons, esp the ones who go into the military are super strait / narrow types who were boy scouts, church leaders, and have been taking orders their entire life. Now they can speak fluent spanish, or french and have taking orders down to a science. You couldn't get a more perfect candidate if you used eugenics.

[lcall]

Speaking as a Church member, we are often taught to not hate or mistreat anyone, that such is wrong -- in the scriptures, the Handbook and General Conference, repeatedly, long-term, clearly and consistently. Individuals still make their own choices and we all will be judged by a God we cannot deceive.

(We are also not authorized to change the His commandments, nor the eternal truths that families are part of His plan, and can last forever, though not by force.)

[orwin]

Actually, that doesn't surprise me. Mormons seems to be equal to the now almost defunct "christian humanism" in europe, left-leaning christian (often catholics) that could even join communists during WW2, who take the rules of hospitality and forgiveness very seriously.

[lcall]

Thanks. (You didn't exactly ask, but fwiw for anyone reading: there are key doctrinal differences, like the belief that the "trinity" are really separate divine persons, united in purpose; and that the pure doctrine and authority to administer ordinances was lost in the centuries shortly after Christ and restored (re-established) lately in preparation for His 2nd coming, that there are living prophets providing counsel specifically for our day, as was done anciently. Also that the Book of Mormon (a companion to the Bible and another testament of Christ) is how someone can decide for themselves.

[birdyrooster]

The whole Jesus flying over to America was probably the least believable and most fan-service part of the Mormon Bible.